V for vendatte

[Someone]

Now this movie rocks. it is great and i recomend it for ya all to see. i wont give any spoliers to sucha film its a see it to beleive kind of thing. other then the fact i also dont want to say anything because i might make it sound bad or vice versa

[Black Mamba]

I really want to see this movie for several reasons. The art direction looks great, the story sounds promising, and its from the Wachowski brothers. Has anyone else here seen it?

[AlphonseVanWorden]

Yes, I saw it.

I have some problems with it- problems that have to do with my love of the comic series the film is based upon- but I enjoyed the film immensely.

Be warned, though. The political elements might bother or even upset some viewers.

Same was true of the comics... Although the film takes more of a "general Left" perspective, with some Marxist references (Gramsci and Negri are paraphrased/quoted) and only a couple of anarchist points thrown into the mix, as opposed to the primarily anarchist viewpoint that dominates the comic.

The film's morality is less ambiguous than that of the series, too.

The Wachowskis produced the film and wrote the screenplay, but they didn't direct it, btw.

[base of the pillar]

I would try to explain this movie, but I couldn't do it justice. It is brilliant. I would recommend that everyone go see this movie.

[Jeni Nielsen]

Yes, I saw it.

I have some problems with it- problems that have to do with my love of the comic series the film is based upon- but I enjoyed the film immensely.

Be warned, though. The political elements might bother or even upset some viewers.

Same was true of the comics... Although the film takes more of a "general Left" perspective, with some Marxist references (Gramsci and Negri are paraphrased/quoted) and only a couple of anarchist points thrown into the mix, as opposed to the primarily anarchist viewpoint that dominates the comic.

The film's morality is less ambiguous than that of the series, too.

The Wachowskis produced the film and wrote the screenplay, but they didn't direct it, btw.

The only thing that really bothered me, in comparison to the comic, was the awful ending. If we're really going to keep spoilers out of this topic then I won't go into it, but man... why couldn't they keep it the same? Not everyone could be a terroist like that. That was my one beef.

Funny though, my boyfriend didn't like the ending of the comic. He hated Evey's story! I nearly wanted to punch him in the arm, but I was in Mexico at the time.
(Oh and the Spanish translation of the title is V por Vengenza- V for Vengence. )

[AlphonseVanWorden]

**************SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!******************






I wondered where somebody could get that many subversive masks in a well-run and isolated totalitarian state that's wired with decent surveillance technology and has an effective network of informers and secret police, and how that somebody could ship them to the masses without someone in authority noticing... That what you mean?

V for Vendetta and The Watchmen had a lot to do with bringing me back to comic book fandom in the late Eighties. I'm a pretty big Alan Moore fan. Hence the "problems" I mentioned having with the film. Still, it was more interesting than most Hollywood-financed fluff.

[AlphonseVanWorden]

Kind of off-topic, but I thought I'd mention this. Valerie's letter about the roses, V's dancing with Evey, and the subplot involving the gay television entertainer and his collection of "subversive" artwork were informed by this passage from Emma Goldman's autobiography, one of her most famous passages about having fun, love, and beauty in one's life (and it has more than a little to do with the film's- and the comic's- attitude towards art and freedom):

I became alive once more. At the dances I was one of the most untiring and gayest. One evening a cousin of Sasha, a young boy, took me aside. With a grave face, as if he were about to announce the death of a dear comrade, he whispered to me that it did not behoove an agitator to dance. Certainly not with such reckless abandon, anyway. It was undignified for one who was on the way to become a force in the anarchist movement. My frivolity would only hurt the Cause.

I grew furious at the impudent interference of the boy. I told him to mind his own business, I was tired of having the Cause constantly thrown into my face. I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from conventions and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to became a nun and that the movement should not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. "I want freedom, the right to self-expression, everybody's right to beautiful, radiant things." Anarchism meant that to me, and I would live it in spite of the whole world - prisons, persecution, everything. Yes, even in spite of the condemnation of my own closest comrades I would live my beautiful ideal.

I had worked myself into a passion, my voice ringing out. I found myself surrounded by many people. There was applause, mingled with protests that I was wrong, that one must consider the Cause above everything. All the Russian revolutionists had done that, they had never been conscious of self. It was nothing but narrow egotism to want to enjoy anything that would take one away from the movement. In the hubbub Sasha's voice was the loudest.

I turned in his direction. He was standing near Anna Minkin. I had noticed their growing interest in each other long before our last altercation. Sasha had then moved out of our flat, where Anna used to be almost a daily visitor. It was now the first time in weeks that I had seen either of them. My heart contracted with yearning for my impetuous, headstrong lover. I longed to call him by the name he loved best, Dushenka - to stretch out my arms to him - but his face was set, his eyes full of reproach, and I checked myself. I danced no more that evening.

[Jeni Nielsen]

MORE SPOILERS

I wondered where somebody could get that many subversive masks in a well-run and isolated totalitarian state that's wired with decent surveillance technology and has an effective network of informers and secret police, and how that somebody could ship them to the masses without someone in authority noticing... That what you mean?

Not really. I just feel that not everyone has it in them to be a terrorist as all the people who show up in Guy Fawkes' masks implies. I personally think that nobody would have shown up on the fifth. Not everyone is a potential terrorist. It just wouldn't have happened. It felt completely false to me.

And the ending of the comic makes sense. It even makes sense in the context of the movie. So I don't know why they felt they had to change it to make it completely unrealistic. It also didn't feel true to the original. There can only be one V, though V can pass on his ideals and tricks of the trade. I think the only reason V works is because he is an individual figure fighting the system. If everyone was V there would be no need for him.

Anyhow that was long and rambly, but I think that sums uphow I feel.

[AlphonseVanWorden]

*********EPISODE THREE: REVENGE OF THE SPOILERS**********







I really like the comic's ending. I wouldn't have minded the change to the ending if it had been a little more... realistically revolutionary, a lot less "movie-like." I'd have preferred it if the moviemakers had gone all Battle of Algiers with the uprising. A smaller and more agitated mob. Genuine revolutionary streetfighting. Molotov cocktails. Improvised clubs and projectiles. Police freaking out at the breakdown of the command structure and getting trigger-happy. General mayham. As it stands, the film's conclusion felt contrived.

I wouldn't have minded so much if I hadn't wondered about those masks... I mean, come on. That's a pretty serious problem with the film's internal logic. If you're going to pull that stunt, at least allude to where the masks were made, how they were purchased, who you had to convert to your cause or pay off to slip them past security. Give me something, people...

I think the Wachowskis and the director watered down V's personality, so the ending we get is sort of inevitable. The film's V didn't seem as edgy, as morally ambiguous, as dangerous as the comic book character.

Not a great film, but I enjoyed it for what it was. And it was vastly superior to most American studio product.

If a film version of The Watchmen ever gets made, I shudder to think of how it'll turn out...

EDIT: Come to think of it, if you liked V for Vendetta, check out Battle of Algiers. A truly great, moving, and disturbing film, based on historical events.

[Jeni Nielsen]

A few more spoilers for the comic which everyone should read...

*********EPISODE THREE: REVENGE OF THE SPOILERS**********







I really like the comic's ending. I wouldn't have minded the change to the ending if it had been a little more... realistically revolutionary, a lot less "movie-like." I'd have preferred it if the moviemakers had gone all Battle of Algiers with the uprising. A smaller and more agitated mob. Genuine revolutionary streetfighting. Molotov cocktails. Improvised clubs and projectiles. Police freaking out at the breakdown of the command structure and getting trigger-happy. General mayham. As it stands, the film's conclusion felt contrived.

And this happened in the comic. There were many people rioting, but they were inspired by V not to become him, but to take matters into their own hands. This was why the ending worked. Everyone thought V was dead, but Evey took the opportunity to recreate V after his death. The message didn't die.

Though there is a bit of that trigger-happiness in the movie when the guy kills the little girl. I think people would have taken the opportunity to riot, but they probably didn't see themselves as terroists while they were doing so. Not that V really sees himself as a terrorist either, but I think he's more of a terrorist (and I suppose I'm not using the word as negatively as it could be used), than the rioters in the movie. He's an anarchist. And people wearing the masks should have been shot or at least shot at. I mean if you're willing to risk dressing up like a vigilante you should prove that you'd be willing to sacrifice your life for the cause. Again this is why I think nobody would have showed up on the 5th.

I wouldn't have minded so much if I hadn't wondered about those masks... I mean, come on. That's a pretty serious problem with the film's internal logic. If you're going to pull that stunt, at least allude to where the masks were made, how they were purchased, who you had to convert to your cause or pay off to slip them past security. Give me something, people...

I agree. They just came out of nowhere. Though you could probably assume that V had a stash of them somewhere. It did require a good deal of suspension of my disbelief. Maybe that's what Alan Moore was referring to when he said the script had huge plot holes.

I think the Wachowskis and the director watered down V's personality, so the ending we get is sort of inevitable. The film's V didn't seem as edgy, as morally ambiguous, as dangerous as the comic book character.

I think that came from the transition from comic to film. V had to move around in celuloid. His movements made him seem more like a cartoon character to me. In the comic, where you have still panels and can control lighting and movement, V's character can be more dangerous without seeming like a charicature. Everytime I saw V's "face" in the comic it scared me. I agree though that the movie seemed to be very much on V's side. The torture scene didn't really make me question him either, which surprised me. I think that was a clear choice by the writers and the directors. The movie is not ambiguous. But I think that works in its own way too.

I thought they did a nice job with the concentration camps and hinting at who was put in them (gays, blacks, Muslims) without being overly preachy about it. I've always secretly believed that before he was put in the concentration camp that V was a gay stage actor, but maybe that's just me.

Not a great film, but I enjoyed it for what it was. And it was vastly superior to most American studio product.

This was actually how I felt about the first Matrix movie. ^_^ I agree with that.

EDIT: Come to think of it, if you liked V for Vendetta, check out Battle of Algiers. A truly great, moving, and disturbing film, based on historical events.

I'll try and check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.

[AlphonseVanWorden]

You're welcome, Jeni.

Kind of off-topic again, but this whole conversation reminds me of something...

When I lived in England, some Socialist Party members put flyposters on some of the walls of the town in which I was staying. This happened towards the end of October. One day, the walls were covered in the usual advertisements for bands, nightclub events, what have you. The next day, the Socialist posters were all over the place. The posters showed a certain grinning figure in a black hat and cape holding one of those old bowling ball-shaped bombs with a lit fuse. The caption read: GUY FAWKES- THE ONLY MAN TO ENTER PARLIAMENT WITH HONEST INTENTIONS.

Struck me as pretty cynical... and kind of funny.

[Elmo]

GUY FAWKES- THE ONLY MAN TO ENTER PARLIAMENT WITH HONEST INTENTIONS.

, awesome I'm gonna' have to put that on a t-shirt...

um, in short; film not bad, comic brilliant. At least they dropped the watchmen film.

[Motoko2030]

I saw it last Saturday and I enjoyed it, the art direction, the story, the actors playing the characters. I was born in Great Britain, I enjoyed celebrating Guy Fawkes every year and I always watched a British comedy TV series called Black Adder, which starred Stephen Fry who plays Deitrich in V for Vendetta.

[sonic]

celebrating Guy Fawkes

That's an interesting way to put it. I thought people just like to watch the fireworks. It's sort of like the 4th of July in the US, except they occassionally have a loosely man-shaped figure made of clothing that's been stuffed and they throw him onto a bonfire at some point. I never liked the real significance of the day, once they told us what it was about school (talk about morbid and sick)... I just liked the fireworks and the smell of hot food in the November cold.

So... I heard this film didn't do very well, but there are certainly a lot of people talking about it if that's true. I didn't see it because I'm not mad on the Wachowski's films (well, The Matrix, basically), and I detest Alan Moore's stuff (though admittedly I didn't read the comic of V, just The Watchmen and a few other shorter things). Don't get upset at me, I know I'm in the minority -*sigh*- ...I just can't read the things for all the grit and grime that pours out and gets stuck in my eyes. It's such a bad feeling that even the sight of cutesy bunnies in the Springtime cannot clear them...

[Tonks_kittygoth]

even the sight of cutesy bunnies in the Springtime cannot clear them.

YeY a woman after my own heart. Did you see the worlds largest bunny was married this week? (i can just hear you boys groaning! hehehehe)

Actually you might like V. It doesnt have that soul sucking quality Watchman does. It is actually romantic really. Sort of the last stand of the last romantic.

Granted a vigilante romantic, but....

You must Love Frank Miller than?... Sometimes pulp stuff pushes the grime so far that it become mythic. I think that maybe that is what O'Barr's "The Crow" was trying to do. (the GN not the movie)