The last episode...

Jigabachi · Post by **Jigabachi** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:39 pm

Probably Kuze could have become "the second Che", that is the reason why the CIA agent killed him.

douyang · Post by **douyang** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:15 pm

I'm also confused about the significance of the apples, why the CIA whacked Kuze, exactly why Gouda tried to defect (besides the fact that he must have known he would be punished sooner or later), and how Aramaki figured out they were going to kill Kuze when he saw the CIA was involved.

Lightice · Post by **Lightice** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:31 am

douyang wrote:I'm also confused about the significance of the apples, why the CIA whacked Kuze, exactly why Gouda tried to defect (besides the fact that he must have known he would be punished sooner or later), and how Aramaki figured out they were going to kill Kuze when he saw the CIA was involved.

CIA killed Kuze most likely because of what they said was their motive: they didn't want a charismatic and unpredictable leader continue to have influence on millions, even behind the bars. Apparently they either didn't think of or care about making him a martyr.
Gouda presumably had planned on defecting for some time, already, because he didn't gain the recognition he wanted, in Japan. And Aramaki most likely made the most obvious guess - Kuze is a liability, since he didn't blow up with Dejima, like he should have, so his elimination is not difficult to guess.

I have no speculation about the apple, though. It seemed like a some sort of link between Kuze and Major, but beyond that, I have no idea.

Tonks_kittygoth · Post by **Tonks_kittygoth** » Sun May 28, 2006 10:55 pm

There is a bunch of theories about the apple and some on the American empire over in the Episode 26 thread. Hop on over if you havent already.

I think that Ghoda must have been working with the Americans for some time, as the American sub nuke was a big part of his plan. He was running away with the Americans because he knew the jig was up in Japan. I think the Americans taking him in is a refference to all of the Nazi scientists etc that we brought to work for us after WWII.

Yey us... sigh....

Jigabachi · Post by **Jigabachi** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:37 pm

American Empire was not taking him. Gouda was defecting to American Empire in his own will.

Tonks_kittygoth · Post by **Tonks_kittygoth** » Mon May 29, 2006 5:05 pm

I said "taking him in" as in giving him refuge... since he was in danger in japan

douyang · Post by **douyang** » Mon May 29, 2006 5:51 pm

Tonks_kittygoth wrote: I think the Americans taking him in is a refference to all of the Nazi scientists etc that we brought to work for us after WWII.

Yey us... sigh....

Like who? Where did you learn this? Were these guys involved in atrocities like those "medical experiments" Mengele committed in Death camps?

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:06 pm

Yeah that happened alot during and after the war. There was a big brain leeching going on with Russia & the US(and others too but to a lesser extent) recruiting as many 'talented' people as they could, especially sought after were researchers involved with V2 rocketry or A-bomb research. Post war there were some less appealing characters whose pasts were overlooked in the race to aquire imported talent.

Jigabachi · Post by **Jigabachi** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:20 pm

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:I said "taking him in" as in giving him refuge... since he was in danger in japan

The hell? He was not in danger in Japan. Where did you come up with that conclusion?

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:35 pm

Well... he'd just used a virus to create a terrorist organisation, his actions had led to the deaths of alot of civilians and GDSF troops, he conspired to launch a nuclear missile on Japanese soil, he was involved in a coup d'etat, he had people disappeared, manipulated millitary equipment so it would incite the refugees and that's just for starters. It would be reasonable to surmise that someone acting that way could expect to be arrested or assasinated etc.

Tonks_kittygoth · Post by **Tonks_kittygoth** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:37 pm

Jigabachi wrote:
Tonks_kittygoth wrote:I said "taking him in" as in giving him refuge... since he was in danger in japan
The hell? He was not in danger in Japan. Where did you come up with that conclusion?

Well the major and Batou shot his head into ity bity squishy pieces, and if that haddnt happened he would have had to stand trial for starting a war for his own purposes. I forget the exact wording. Plus all the stuff Elmo mentions. Hence he was in danger in Japan, but would be safe with the American agents in America.

Jigabachi · Post by **Jigabachi** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:08 am

Tonks_kittygoth wrote: Well the major and Batou shot his head into ity bity squishy pieces, and if that haddnt happened he would have had to stand trial for starting a war for his own purposes. I forget the exact wording. Plus all the stuff Elmo mentions. Hence he was in danger in Japan, but would be safe with the American agents in America.

The main reason why they had to kill Gouda was because he was going to be a real threat if he defects to another country. Fact that the Prime Minister complimented how he managed to create this incident as Aramaki mentioned, she gave an order to kill him if he was really going to defect to American Empire. And Gouda wanted to defect to American Empire, not mainly because he was in danger of what he did, but because he thought him and his skill belonged to more greater country compared to Japan.

Tonks_kittygoth · Post by **Tonks_kittygoth** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:44 pm

Yes, however he was going to be arressted and tried for treason as well as the attempt to start a nuclear war for his own purposes. He would be spending the rest of his life in jail, unless treason is a capital offence in which case he would die. Aramaki and Togusa werent there to give him a bunch of roses and a free spa vacation.

Jigabachi · Post by **Jigabachi** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:13 pm

We all know that he was well aware of what he did, and Gouda also knew what he did was a high treason. But that was not the reason why he wanted to defect to American Empire, according to what Gouda himself said.

Lightice · Post by **Lightice** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:23 am

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:Yes, however he was going to be arressted and tried for treason as well as the attempt to start a nuclear war for his own purposes. He would be spending the rest of his life in jail, unless treason is a capital offence in which case he would die.

Except that since he wasn't a public figure of any sort, his talent would still be valuable. Given a chance, he would most likely have done a contract of some sort with the goverment and end up doing the same things he did before, but for someone else's benefit.

There is an interesting parallel between Gouda and Dr. Asuda (Tachikomas' creator). They both attempted to defect into American Empire to get recognition of their work and they both were prevented from doing so by Section 9. They did have few other things in common, as well. They both were trying to use the goverment for their own ends and failing in that, take all their accomplishments achieved with their goverment's help and leave.