Laughing Man: Who knew that the absence of an original would produce copies without an original? If you had to give this phenomenon a name, what would you call it?
Motoko: Stand Alone Complex.
Laughing Man: Yes. Stand Alone Complex... From the beginning, the very nature of our current social system has contained the mechanisms to trigger such a phenomenon.
So iv finished watching GITS SAC season 1 for like the fith time. But episode 26 always gets me. I'm trying to find out exactly what the stand alone complex is, from what iv noted all i can deduce are small defintions like Copys without orignials.
Can any GITS fans help? An essay, artical (other then from wikapedia) that help explains what this stand alone complex is? Is fustrating to watch an entire season and still not really know what an anime is about.
also I think this quote is related to the laughing man from
"If you had a million years to do it, you couldn't rub out even half the "*FUK* you" signs in the world."
"What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff- I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be. I know it's crazy." Who is the LM
Some 1 please explain this concept and what copy in the show was produced without an orginal
ok... so Stand Alone is simply that?
Moderator: sonic
ok... so Stand Alone is simply that?
Last edited by shawndow1 on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
ok were starting to get somewhere! Go on... got me intrested, expand explain. If you could chance the sentence structure and add just a lil more i think you should add on at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_t ... ne_Complex
Last edited by shawndow1 on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah what ghostline said was in my opinion pretty much it.
I believe the stand alone complex, are individuals with differnet goals, different methods, and overall pretty much different eveything > that leads to them being overwise not connected. That is the componet that bluids up the stand alone part. As for the complex, it is the perception of observers, that sees events resulting from the individuals action as being linked together by organized behaviour or by a seperate medium that inflict ideals/behaviours on the individuals.
....i think
I believe the stand alone complex, are individuals with differnet goals, different methods, and overall pretty much different eveything > that leads to them being overwise not connected. That is the componet that bluids up the stand alone part. As for the complex, it is the perception of observers, that sees events resulting from the individuals action as being linked together by organized behaviour or by a seperate medium that inflict ideals/behaviours on the individuals.
....i think
Peace just means nothing fun ever happends.
But i mean the whole season couldn't be based off the major impersonating the Laughing Man that ONE time. I think i understand the theory because its as simple as a bunch of stands alone that ironically with no affliaction come together and form a complex idea, structure or belife.
Where were the stand alones present in GITS SAC 1? If the one time the major impersonated the Laughing man is the structure around Sac 1 i feel kinda ripped. I havnt even finished Gits Sac 2 and its pretty easy to see the refugees and as a SAC. U know what im saying i understand the idea but where is present in the show. Other then the 1 time the Major played copycat. Unless thats simply it?
The only other thing i can even think of is the totally unrealted attackes where like 30 strangers just tried to asassenate the head of health mocromachien guys.
Where were the stand alones present in GITS SAC 1? If the one time the major impersonated the Laughing man is the structure around Sac 1 i feel kinda ripped. I havnt even finished Gits Sac 2 and its pretty easy to see the refugees and as a SAC. U know what im saying i understand the idea but where is present in the show. Other then the 1 time the Major played copycat. Unless thats simply it?
The only other thing i can even think of is the totally unrealted attackes where like 30 strangers just tried to asassenate the head of health mocromachien guys.
The Laughing Man incident shows, that a simplest of actions can lead to vast an unpredictable consequences. The "original" Laughing Man, who himself was motivated by another, anonymous source only took a single action - kidnapping Mr. Ernest Serano, but his absence then let the people he had motivated to take his place and become something he really even wasn't in the first place - thus they became "copies without an original". The phenomenon was greater than the person behind it and took an unexpected turn.
Everyone that was affected by the Laughing Man phenomenon was a subject to the Stand Alone Complex. Every action, save for the kidnapping and death threat themselves weren't actions of the person who became known as the Laughing Man, but by the people who were motivated by these actions. That is the nature of Stand Alone Complex.
I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "structure around Sac 1"? In any case, Major didn't just impersonate the Laughing Man. She became motivated by his actions as well and became one of the copycats, albeit knowing better than most of them, what was behind her actions and how they affected to the people around her.
The refugees are not a Stand Alone Complex. At least not in the sense the Laughing Man's copycats were. They are people motivated by an active hero, which is a subtly different matter. The Individual Eleven were a SAC, at least in appearance, but as it was found out, they were in a sense forged phenomenon.
It is present everywhere where the actions are taken in the place of a percieved but absent original. Everywhere, where people are motivated by a medium of information to act in synchronization with each other. In every Laughing Man copycat - and every member of the Individual Eleven.
Where were the stand alones present in GITS SAC 1?
Everyone that was affected by the Laughing Man phenomenon was a subject to the Stand Alone Complex. Every action, save for the kidnapping and death threat themselves weren't actions of the person who became known as the Laughing Man, but by the people who were motivated by these actions. That is the nature of Stand Alone Complex.
If the one time the major impersonated the Laughing man is the structure around Sac 1 i feel kinda ripped.
I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "structure around Sac 1"? In any case, Major didn't just impersonate the Laughing Man. She became motivated by his actions as well and became one of the copycats, albeit knowing better than most of them, what was behind her actions and how they affected to the people around her.
I havnt even finished Gits Sac 2 and its pretty easy to see the refugees and as a SAC.
The refugees are not a Stand Alone Complex. At least not in the sense the Laughing Man's copycats were. They are people motivated by an active hero, which is a subtly different matter. The Individual Eleven were a SAC, at least in appearance, but as it was found out, they were in a sense forged phenomenon.
U know what im saying i understand the idea but where is present in the show. Other then the 1 time the Major played copycat. Unless thats simply it?
It is present everywhere where the actions are taken in the place of a percieved but absent original. Everywhere, where people are motivated by a medium of information to act in synchronization with each other. In every Laughing Man copycat - and every member of the Individual Eleven.
Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!
Lightice wrote:The Laughing Man incident shows, that a simplest of actions can lead to vast an unpredictable consequences. The "original" Laughing Man, who himself was motivated by another, anonymous source only took a single action - kidnapping Mr. Ernest Serano, but his absence then let the people he had motivated to take his place and become something he really even wasn't in the first place - thus they became "copies without an original". The phenomenon was greater than the person behind it and took an unexpected turn.
OMG I'm starting to see from that 1 anonymous laughing man spawned over 3 different laughing men. The major, the guy who hacks 39 peoples cyberbrain to attempt an assanation, and the labled laughing man. Even though there was no laughing man to even begin with never the less the whole phenomenon of the laughing man. Just a bunch of different people that came to form a complex.
damn bell rang
i don't think the major counts, because she only pretended to be the laughing man in order to get information on the laughing man.shawndow1 wrote:OMG I'm starting to see from that 1 anonymous laughing man spawned over 3 different laughing men. The major....
actually this was a surprise to section nine, that none of the people had any indication of brain hacking...that they in fact had willfully employed the persona of TLM of their own weakminded accord. charles mackay entitled his book, Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds, and i'm sure the laughing man(s) syndrome fits well.shawndow1 wrote:the guy who hacks 39 peoples cyberbrain
I read this and the first thought i had, which you may like to reject or build upon, was this; this appears to be simply an individuals reaction to a stimulus. We're all individuals, but there also lies the possibility of reacting in the same way.Lightice wrote: Everyone that was affected by the Laughing Man phenomenon was a subject to the Stand Alone Complex. Every action, save for the kidnapping and death threat themselves weren't actions of the person who became known as the Laughing Man, but by the people who were motivated by these actions. That is the nature of Stand Alone Complex.
...
It is present everywhere where the actions are taken in the place of a percieved but absent original. Everywhere, where people are motivated by a medium of information to act in synchronization with each other. In every Laughing Man copycat - and every member of the Individual Eleven.
Now if this is the nauture of the Stand Alone Complex as you are trying to describe it, then this is a dissapointment to me.
It was built up as a take on a futures society and as such I expected it to be a complicated concept that we had to decipher from the series to grasp the new emerging social pattern.
It seems simply now to be just a take on a rather mundane social aspect.
Are you ANTI-POP?
But with a new, cool name! Remember, GitS SAC is anime after all.james_sb wrote:It seems simply now to be just a take on a rather mundane social aspect.
Is al-Qaida a stand alone complex? It seems as if they're getting credit for just about any deed, while the most recent thing I read was that they were not behind the bombings in London. Stand alones on the inside, but looking like a complex from the outside. Mundane indeed.
Recommended cyberpunk:
shawndow1 wrote: OMG I'm starting to see from that 1 anonymous laughing man spawned over 3 different laughing men. The major, the guy who hacks 39 peoples cyberbrain to attempt an assanation, and the labled laughing man.
Actually the 39 (was that their full number?) people all acted out of their free will - they too, were Laughing Man copycats and their actions weren't predicted by anyone. The only person who was hacked in the assassination was the member of the security detail and his attempt was rigged to fail from the start - the hacker was a copycat, as well - but the one who actually made the threat was the same, who originally kidnapped Mr. Serano. Also those various corporate blackmain schemes that took place six years earlier were made by copycats, although at least some of them had ulterior motives in working for the benefit of those companies.
Even though there was no laughing man to even begin with never the less the whole phenomenon of the laughing man. Just a bunch of different people that came to form a complex.
You got it right, here. The true Laughing Man was the phenomenon, not the person. The person who originally inspired the others to act was also inspired by another and he didn't define himself as the Laughing Man, before the phenomenon itself took place.
I read this and the first thought i had, which you may like to reject or build upon, was this; this appears to be simply an individuals reaction to a stimulus. We're all individuals, but there also lies the possibility of reacting in the same way.
Indeed. The mechanics which create the Stand Alone Complex are real and synchronious behaviour and attachment to certain memetic patters takes place in real life, as well, though not quite as dramatically as in the series.
It was built up as a take on a futures society and as such I expected it to be a complicated concept that we had to decipher from the series to grasp the new emerging social pattern.
Oh, but it is. The expanding information technology allows taught patters such as the Laughing Man-incident to come out and spread far more efficently than ever before and have the potential to become far more serious than mere new trends and fashions.
It seems simply now to be just a take on a rather mundane social aspect.
I would call this not seeing forest from the trees. The phenomenon is extremely fascinating and it defines a good deal of our society. Quoting Gillsing, mundane, indeed.
Is al-Qaida a stand alone complex? It seems as if they're getting credit for just about any deed, while the most recent thing I read was that they were not behind the bombings in London. Stand alones on the inside, but looking like a complex from the outside.
They are propably the best example we have at this day. Their structure is loose and is based on ideals and ties of friendship, not in any kind of a fixed hierarchy. People can become "members" just by stating their affiliation and doing something that they consider benefical to their cause. That's why their destruction in the methods of traditional war is next to impossible. I'm fairly positive, that the creators of the series taught about them, among other things when they created the concept.
Last edited by Lightice on Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!
Indeed "Al-Qaeda" is a stand alone complex. Its also interesting to note that OBL only starting using the name Al Qaeda after the US called them it.Gillsing wrote:But with a new, cool name! Remember, GitS SAC is anime after all.james_sb wrote:It seems simply now to be just a take on a rather mundane social aspect.
Is al-Qaida a stand alone complex? It seems as if they're getting credit for just about any deed, while the most recent thing I read was that they were not behind the bombings in London. Stand alones on the inside, but looking like a complex from the outside. Mundane indeed.
Al Qaeda is(or was) the name of the CIA's database of controlled Terrorist Assets of which OBL was one, they funded him during the cold war to fight the russians in Afghanistan.
The UK government recently announced that the UK bombers had no direct link to AlQ, they were simply influenced by websites.
Ditto the Spanish bombers, no direct link to AlQ.
2nd Gig seems to me to be a direct nod towards todays world, with the intelligence agencies pulling the wool over peoples eyes(media manipulation) and influencing or carrying out the actions of so called terrorists.
Just look at the false flag nuclear attack.
wow, I didn't know that. Kinda' like how the CIA gave the north vietnamese army the name 'vietcong' because their existing names weren't 'sinister' enough.Marf wrote:Indeed "Al-Qaeda" is a stand alone complex. Its also interesting to note that OBL only starting using the name Al Qaeda after the US called them it.
But wouldn't these more recent terrorist cells be mimics of the US war-on-terror meme, rather than OBLs Jihad meme? even the response by governments and media concerning events like the UK london bombings(I refuse to use the 7/7 media tagline for the event) mimics the 9/11 event.
In fact all factions involved act in very similar ways with almost identical soundbite(swap patriot/martyr, Jihad/WarOnTerror, GodGiven/InAllah'sName and so on...).
From a stand alone complex point of view you have to wonder which of the factions is the origional, whose script is being served by the mimicry..
Meh.. I despise them all equally
Joseph Cambell wrote:Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.