in the shell Forum Index in the shell
Discussions about the many incarnations of Ghost in the Shell, philosophy and more!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Why is manga less respectable than kiddyporn?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    in the shell Forum Index -> Manga
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Elmo



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 219
Location: Plato's Cave Weapon of Choice: Sarcasm

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Why is manga less respectable than kiddyporn? Reply with quote

Anyone else get shifty looks or smutty comments(mainly from my flatmates Razz) when standing in the borders manga section? I mean, what's the deal with that. Back in the day, manga and anime had a slightly seedy reputation in the UK(i don't know about elsewhere) but these days almost everyone has heard of or seen a few good mangas/japanese animations. So why still the seedy reputation? I feel like i should make my purchases in a trenchcoat ..half expecting the cashier to offer me a copy of MMI with a whispered "something for the weekend"...

...personally i blame cosplay :p
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
base of the pillar



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 88
Location: drifitng on the winds of change

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In America, at least in my experience, its treated like much of the other "nerd things". They make fun of it and call me gay or some other intelligent quip. Its not so much seedy as nerdy.
_________________
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gillsing



Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never happened to me, though a few people in my RPG club several years back expressed their dislike for the 'silly big eye thing'. So they were being elitist in an artsy way. I guess Sweden is just better than the rest of the 'u r teh fag'-world. Wink (or maybe I've just learn to ignore and forget what stupid people say)

And considering that kiddyporn is illegal and the cops are actually on the case, I'd say that it's a gross exaggeration to suggest that manga would be less respectable than kiddyporn. I know of nothing that is more disrespected than pedophilia. I think that even terrorists that kill lots of civilians might be more respected. I mean, just count the nations supporting terrorism and then compare the number to the nations that supports pedophilia! (I only know of the Vatican...) :wink:

EDIT: Though manga is all about unaderage pantyshots, so maybe it is kiddyporn! Very Happy
_________________
Recommended cyberpunk:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tkohlmetz



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In school there is a little bit of a divide between the anime animators and the traditional cartoon style (I am an animation student), but really no one cares. The american style kids make occasional comments and so do the anime kids, but its mostly in good fun. I usually get my manga at the comic store so no comments there.

I imagine the "dislike" is just similar to comics and cartoons, mostly viewed as a "childrens" medium and being dismissed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Bringin It Down



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As being from a different scene altogether, I get made fun of the most. I take pride in my nerdiness, but in the world of hardcore, people are kind of into the whole "macho" thing, which annoys me. I read mangas/watch animes and go to hardcore shows to get away from the jerks from my school, and now they're even invading hardcore and making fun of me in there. I'm not complaining, I love who I am, but I can relate to Elmo. I sometimes get laughed at by my friends for watching animes or reading mangas, and when browsing the local book/comic stores, I get looked at weird too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spica



Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 132
Location: The Sleeping Universe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is manga less respectable than kiddyporn? Reply with quote

Elmo wrote:
Anyone else get shifty looks or smutty comments(mainly from my flatmates Razz) when standing in the borders manga section? I mean, what's the deal with that. Back in the day, manga and anime had a slightly seedy reputation in the UK(i don't know about elsewhere) but these days almost everyone has heard of or seen a few good mangas/japanese animations. So why still the seedy reputation? I feel like i should make my purchases in a trenchcoat ..half expecting the cashier to offer me a copy of MMI with a whispered "something for the weekend"...

...personally i blame cosplay :p


That reputation might be due the the kind of marketing that Manga Entertainment did in its early days in the UK. From what I've noticed from my perspective in America, Manga Entertainment targeted a seedier audiance in the early days on english language anime.

Luckily, in America, the stigma associated with liking anime is that of being a nerd, which is fine by me (I'm proud of my nerdish leanings).
_________________
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
-Hamlet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Black Mamba



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 262
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only manga I've ever read in Ghost in the Shell, which I never got made fun of for reading. If anything people wanna see it for the xxx stuff. Razz

I don't know if I'm living under a rock, but I only see these styero types in movies. One epidemic thats pissing me off is the "I'm a dork and I'm so proud of it!". All thats doing is enforcing those styero types that the same people bitched about years ago: "Don't label me!"

Well stop labeling yourself.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Spica



Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 132
Location: The Sleeping Universe

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we can't help but label ourselves, its part of human nature. You're even imposing a label upon yourself by thinking freely or opposing labels (the labels of free thinker and anti-labelist).
_________________
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
-Hamlet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
base of the pillar



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 88
Location: drifitng on the winds of change

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how being proud of being a dork is a bad thing. Its just taking a negative steryotype and making it positive. All people need a subculture.


I'M A DORK AND PROUD OF IT!!!
_________________
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
miki-chan



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard anything about manga/anime being viewed as seedy in any way. And I haven't ever really gotten any flak for my fandom. Maybe it's because so many of my friends and co-workers are science fiction fans--or because there's a fairly large Asian population in this area? About the closest I've come to being dissed is one co-worker allowing as how "those big eyes don't do it for me" or words to that effect, and we just took the civilized route and agreed to disagree on the subject.
_________________
"Smoke and idiots love high places."--Batou
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shadowferret



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, whenever I buy Manga from the local store, they always put it in a little bag...makes me feel like I'm buying something bad. Then, when my parents see what I have...
"Hey, what'd you buy?"
"I bought a new manga book!"
"Oh. That's it?"
And then, of course, there's the other kids who look at me weird for reading it backwards...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
AlphonseVanWorden



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had any odd looks in quite a while. When I purchase manga at a corporate store or special order it from a smaller operation, I'm just as likely to have an employee say something like, "Oh, cool. Have you read <fill-in-the-blank>?" as anything else.

It might have to do with location. New Orleans has a wide range of social classes and a number of college students, and it has a lot of older people who are into science fiction and fantasy.

Thanks to better distribution, better translations and dubs, and a bigger share of the marketplace, more folks are growing up with manga and anime, and people are getting some exposure to Miyazaki, etc. courtesy of television programming and word-of-mouth.

I find that manga- and anime, and comic books- are useful for cutting through certain alleged boundaries. I've had great conversations about manga, anime, even martial arts films with people of different races, socio-economic backgrounds, etc.

Miyazaki has an Oscar, and Howl's Moving Castle earned him another nomination. The second GitS movie was in competition at Cannes. A recent Absolut ad uses images from Akira. New York's Museum of Modern Art had an anime exhibition in 2005; you'll notice that the program lists manga creators as well as the directors.
http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/film_media/2005/anime.html

Anime's far more respectable than it was, at least in the States. And I think the same can be said of manga.

I'm glad the creators of anime get awards and whatnot. Not because I care about respectability in itself and for its own sake, but because I imagine it's satisfying for them to see their efforts getting honored outside of Japan, and because it makes it easier for me to buy product.

Still, I had to deal with the dirty-look factor back in the early Nineties, and I realize that bias against anime and manga still exists. I don't think it has to do with anime or manga per se. It has far more to do with genre snobbery, with the notion that comics and animation are for kids, with the preconception that science fiction and related genres and paraliteratures are always adolescent in content.

Best solutions for that kind of snobbery, when you experience it: Get the person to read MAUS, PERSEPOLIS, Los Brothers Hernandez (sic), or Joe Sacco's "comic journalism" from Palestine and Sarajevo, or hand them Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell's FROM HELL. Or pick the coolest anime or manga you can think of, and tell the person about it. Or, the simplest solution of all, ignore the person.

And if you haven't read Art Spiegelman's MAUS or Marjane Satrapi's PERSEPOLIS and EMBROIDERIES, shame on you. :lol:

P.S. to shadowferret- Just remember, if other kids give you funny looks, that probably means you're cooler than they are. :)

(You're looking at another nation's popular culture, digging artwork, getting involved in the stories, etc. And doing so makes you happy. To me, that's pretty nifty, pretty darned cool. If somebody else doesn't get it... well, just keep doin' what you're doin'.)
_________________
Such is the soul in the body: this world is like her little turf of grass, and the heaven o'er our heads, like her looking-glass, only gives us a miserable knowledge of the small compass of our prison. - Bosola, in John Webster's The Duchess of Malfi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Elmo



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 219
Location: Plato's Cave Weapon of Choice: Sarcasm

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well to be fair I was buying "hentai tentacle beast lovefest II" at the time. (J/K) Wink

It's nice to see that most of the bigname bookshops in the UK have got extensive manga/graphic novel sections now even if it is all mostly 'love hina'.... Rolling Eyes I suppose once more people check it out the more respect it'll get as a storytelling medium.




sorry about the kiddyporn comparison in hindsight it was a bit in bad taste, even if noone was offended.
_________________
Joseph Cambell wrote:
Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AlphonseVanWorden



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
well to be fair I was buying "hentai tentacle beast lovefest II" at the time. (J/K)


Laughing Laughing Laughing

Was that a Toshio Maeda "art book"? I think the title translates into English as The Legend of La Blue Overfiend's Invasion, or maybe just This Product Is Evil, Buy Love Hina Instead? Laughing

It was a valid question and a good point, Elmo. The "dirty look" thing.

BTW, which stores do you mean? I lived in England for a while and haunted several bookstores, so I'm a little curious...
_________________
Such is the soul in the body: this world is like her little turf of grass, and the heaven o'er our heads, like her looking-glass, only gives us a miserable knowledge of the small compass of our prison. - Bosola, in John Webster's The Duchess of Malfi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Elmo



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 219
Location: Plato's Cave Weapon of Choice: Sarcasm

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing lol Laughing

well, all my local Borders, Waterstones/Ottakers have got at least a few of their bookshelves given over to manga, so I've been assuming that it's the same all around England, no?
_________________
Joseph Cambell wrote:
Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    in the shell Forum Index -> Manga All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group