Episode 26: Endless Gig (Contains spoilers)

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douyang
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Post by douyang »

cowboyfunk22 wrote: I was drunk while watching it, so the episode is pretty much a blur, but a good blur.
I have to try this sometime. Is it better when you're drunk? :)
base of the pillar wrote:
The apple being symbolic of the fruit of the tree of knowledge in that the fact that a bite was taken symbolizes Kuze entering the net and the next faze of life. After all the major did secure all that space.
No she didn't. The Tachikomas explicitly refused her order to do so since they didn't believe you could preserve the consciousness and identity of people in cyberspace, plus they wanted to save Batou and the rest. Which makes Kuze's death kinda tragic since he never reached the higher existence he sought. He just died.
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base of the pillar
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Post by base of the pillar »

In the last few scenes before the tachi's die they are seen collecting all this data in cyberspace. They didn't refuse the majors order they just decided to quit and begin taking down sattelites.
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
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Tonks_kittygoth
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Post by Tonks_kittygoth »

base of the pillar wrote:In the last few scenes before the tachi's die they are seen collecting all this data in cyberspace. They didn't refuse the majors order they just decided to quit and begin taking down sattelites.
Yep, remember those orange balls they were making while they were talking, that was the area in cyber space. They made some space, just not enough for the millions of citizens of Dejema. (sp) That is also where I think they went when thier satilite crashed because it showed them disintigrate in the orange cyber land, then blue trails into the big ball they made, then them reassembling in a new white space and high fiving each other.
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Lightice
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Post by Lightice »

Tonks_kittygoth wrote: Yep, remember those orange balls they were making while they were talking, that was the area in cyber space. They made some space, just not enough for the millions of citizens of Dejema. (sp) That is also where I think they went when thier satilite crashed because it showed them disintigrate in the orange cyber land, then blue trails into the big ball they made, then them reassembling in a new white space and high fiving each other.


Indeed. Also, the file that one of the Tachikoma's writes just before they crash says "All Tachikoma memory", or something like that - just in mirror image. But apparently they won't be back in the Solid State Society, despite of this. Perhaps it's just an easter egg for the Tachikoma fans.
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Marf
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Post by Marf »

douyang wrote:Which makes Kuze's death kinda tragic since he never reached the higher existence he sought. He just died.
I prefer to think that he did indeed reach the higher existence he sought, someone as cybernetically adept as he appeared to be should have had no problem in escaping his body in the final moments, just like the Major does in the last Episode of the first series when the sniper takes her out.
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Lightice
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Post by Lightice »

Marf wrote: I prefer to think that he did indeed reach the higher existence he sought, someone as cybernetically adept as he appeared to be should have had no problem in escaping his body in the final moments, just like the Major does in the last Episode of the first series when the sniper takes her out.


Major does not escape from her body, in that episode. She doesn't have to. She left her brain home and remote-controlled her body, since she knew that she was going to be assassinated.
There was questioning of whether it is even possible to retain individuality in the process of abandoning the body and not even Kuze had an actual answer. Although I do believe that he attempted to escape his body, in the end, it might be, that Kuze as a human ceased to be, in that point and became a simple collection of information, or perhaps a different kind of entity, entirely.
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Motoko2030
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Post by Motoko2030 »

I think Motoko could have left her body, she was connected to Kuze and Kuze's cyberbrain being a cyber-hub to connect refugees with cyberbrains to him by using the cyber-hub, but she didn't since the Tachikomas destroyed the nuclear missile with their own satellite.

Does anyone have any thoughts on why the Major put the Tachikoma's AI on an American Empire's satellite and it was launched from Japan?

Do you agree with the Tachikomas assessment that the reason why she did it was in order to spy on the American Empire?

For me, it was great to see that the Tachikomas left behind a copy of their memories on the Net in order for them to be remembered, this makes them more human, since all humans try to leave something behind in order for the next generation to remember them.

I liked the ending of Endless Gig since it provided a connection between the first Ghost in the Shell manga and the parallel Earth SAC series by the use of the cross between a Fuchikoma and a Tachikoma, the white padded vests and the cherry blossom tress.
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base of the pillar
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Post by base of the pillar »

I thought they were on an American sattelite so they could do something close to what they did. What I mean is that maybe the major figured their might be a time that having the ability to get the tachi's to controle an American sattelite might be a smart thing.
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
jerryku
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Post by jerryku »

I didn't like 2nd GIG's ending as much as I'd hoped. It felt very much like a "Deus Ex Machina" ending to me. The conclusion with Gouda and Kuze felt way too rushed, too. Here we have Gouda, who did a lot of Palpatine stuff for a dozen episodes.. getting whacked like he's some nobody. Kuze, the Che Guevara hero, gets whacked like he's nobody, too. :(

The part where Gouda and the AE CIA guy talk about Japan being socialist underneath and America being a fraud democracy.. I think that was trying to comment how in the past, Japan's left wing was very strong. In the 50s/60s, Japan's Left was in a lot of protests. At one point, President Eisenhower was supposed to go to Japan, but he cancelled his trip because of leftist protests there. Then there was socialist Inejiro Asanuma, who got assassinated in 1960 by a right wing youth with a sword (which very much reminded me of the Kuze - Kayabuki scene in 2nd GIG). Asanuma believed Japan should be close allies to China, and pretty much separate itself from the US. There are some wild theories out there suggesting that American Right wanted Asanuma dead just as much as the Japanese Right did.

Also, I recently read that Japan's Diet recently approved a measure encouraging the creation of a world federal government. That is, global democracy. Some people believe that democracy inevitably leads to socialism (economic democracy) and other forms of collectivism. So maybe that's what the creators of 2nd GIG were hinting at.

Meanwhile, the US claims to be democratic, but according to popular right-winger writer Robert Kaplan, our democracy is a fraud. According to Kaplan, America's government is very elitist, ruled by corporate and political elites where the voter has no real power. Democracy is just an opiate of the masses, says Kaplan, designed to appease the powerless masses.

I really enjoyed 2nd GIG overall. It was like a more overt way of presenting an internationalist message. Star Trek did this too, but more subtly. But yea, it's very political and I'm surprised they run it on TV. It's hard to follow, IMO. Good for watching on DVD though ;)
vapor_snake
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Post by vapor_snake »

maybe this is a little bit off topic.. but don't you guys think that batou is a little bit jaulous of Kuze.. coz she seem very close to Kuze, although Batou who have been saving the Major's ass all this time.. .

c'mon.. Batou should know that the Major can take of herself (when she was trapped under those concretes), he just panic coz Kuze and the Major finally got some alone time together ( under the showering missles).

nah.. i guess i'm just making stuff up so it become more interesting....
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Pazu
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Post by Pazu »

Batou obviously has some unsaid emotions with the Major. Towards the end of each season, he tends to express high levels of concern, more so than the other members in Section 9. There are a number of reasons that suggest Batou has deeper feelings for Motoko, but since there was never any direct confrontation, it will remain speculation. Unless they lock lips in SSS :shock: jk.
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Post by Tonks_kittygoth »

Jerryku, I also think it was a little rush, but still good. Maybe the point of Ghoda and Kuze's demises was purpously pointless.
All that Sound and Fury Signifying Nothing sort of thing.

Vapor Snake, I think that the jelousy is very clear throughout the episodes from the point where Kusinagi contacts Kuse. Batou's anger at her strange behavior, not eating and the overzealous knife fight were a good indicator. I particularly thought it was funny how Batou took his knife back from Kuze, and handled him kinda roughly after pulling them out of the rubble.

If you look around the site you'll see some mention of the question of the extent of thier relationship.
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one wants to live and not die, so do other
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NotAnAverageAnimeFan
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Post by NotAnAverageAnimeFan »

While the episode played out different than I thought I still can appreicate it. Since its a show, everyone was expecting things to work out for the refugees and Kuze but instead the creators took a more realistic approach filled with unhappy endings and issues unsolved. The refugee problem came full circle (thus endless GIG?) and Kuze, weither dead or evolved, we wont be seeing him anytime soon (i think). Well, at least ghoda got his.
Jeeze, another season, another antagonist (Kuze) that would have made a great member of section 9.
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james_sb
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Post by james_sb »

NotAnAverageAnimeFan wrote:but instead the creators took a more realistic approach filled with unhappy endings and issues unsolved.
I once read that an inexpierenced author kills their main character at the end of the story rather than say have a happy ending in an attempt to show how creul and unforgiving the world is. The thing is, we know this already. It takes more effort to find a resolve.

I don't want to say anything against GITS: I was impressed with all 26 episodes, twice. And they never killed the guy who i'm just going to call the laughing man for ease. He's left floating. I suppose this was on a much grander scheme. They had to end the charactor maybe.

NotAnAverageAnimeFan wrote:Jeeze, another season, another antagonist (Kuze) that would have made a great member of section 9.
I read this and thought how true. And in this guys case, diverse too, so as not to over-specialise and what-not. The film Togusa would be feeling very inept! But you have to have them that good, otherwise why wouldn't Section 9 just deal with them in one episode.. That's a problem with having 'super' characters like the Major etc..
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NotAnAverageAnimeFan
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Post by NotAnAverageAnimeFan »

Thanks for the feed back, james_sb. You make some very good points. But I would like to point out a few things you may have misunderstood.

The creators created a solution in episode 25 that would have resulted in Kuze and the refugees "evolving," and disapearing into the net which would have taken the same (or less) effort. However, I meant they chose the darker of the two (or more) possible out comes. I'm sure there is some deeper reason for them doing it then the way I summerized, as I'm sure its supposed to represent a real life event (involving the post 9/11 world) and the creators beliefs about it. They could have made one of those super happy endings but they probably didn't want to betray their true beliefs. That is why I gave them credit.

Also, for the record, I would like to point out that I am personally not convinced that Kuze is dead.
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