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Episode 26: Endless Gig (Contains spoilers)
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Motoko2030



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 438
Location: Saline, Michigan

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Episode 26: Endless Gig (Contains spoilers) Reply with quote

What were everyone thoughts on the last episode of SAC 2nd Gig?

My thoughts on it were wow, the season finale episode was absoutely amazing. The action scenes throughout the episode, the Tachikomas sacrificing their AI to protect the refugees as well as Batou and the Major from the nuclear missile, Motoko finally discovering that Kuze is the boy in the hospital and her first true love that she tried to persuade to get a prosthetic body when she was a child to the ending.

The reason for those fans who don't know is that Motoko is not real name, it is her alias, she selectively erased portions of her memory that included her actual name.

The scene where Motoko kills Gouda and jumps through the window is similar to the scene in the 1995 movie and the manga with some changes made to it. (This scene has been used quite a number of times in the SAC series, the season premier episode, Reembody is an example of the scene being used)

The scene at the end where the Section 9 team in the white padded jackets in a garden with cherry blossom trees is taken directly from the manga. The new think tank is a cross between a Tachikoma and a Fuchikoma called a Uchikoma. I love the song at the end of the episode, Christmas in the Silent Forest.

Does anyone know the significance of the apples and who Kayabuki contacted?

We have the SAC movie, Solid State Society to look forward to that picks up a couple of years where SAC 2nd Gig left off with Motoko Kusanagi in a very dark emotional state of mind possibly after knowing that she failed at saving Kuze's life.
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douyang



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering about the significance of the apples too. I'm specualting that the apples Motoko and Kuze had represented the "forbidden fruit" of a sexual relationship with eachother, and the fact that Kuze took a bite out of his indicated that he at least was willing to go through with it. The whole reason they've been looking for eachother all these years was because they were the only two people who could understand and get close to eachother due their shared experience, and alleviate that loneliness they talked about.

My guess is that in the final scenes at the cherry blossoms the major was spacing out wondering what might have been if things had been different, and Batou came close to asking her about how she felt towards Kuze, but thought better of it.

I'm glad they gave Kayabuki some spine and didn't leave her some helpless damsel in distress that needed Aramaki to bail her out all the time.

I laughed out loud when Gouda finally got his messy comeuppance. Then I rewound the video and watched it again. :lol:

I never really understood the conversation between Gouda and the CIA agent talking about the relationship between the master and slave states and how that relates to capitalism and how Japan's intelligentsia and policymakers only pretend Japan is capitalist when it's really an "ideal socialist state." I have a feeling it ties in to the agent who killed Gouda saying the A.E needs a Japan of docile consumers.

I love the ending music too. Does anyone know where I can get a soundtrak for 2nd GIG?
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Motoko2030



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon.com, Right Stuff website at http://www.rightstuf.com/ is a place to get all of the SAC soundtrack CDs, hopefully, volume 6 or 7 will contain the third SAC OST.

As for the apple, it could symbolize the fruit from the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden (other Shirow Masamune works, Appleseed CGI movie mentioned the Garden of Eden) and the bite in the apple could symbolize knowledge from the Tree of Knowledge in the Bible or the apple in Snow White that put Snow White into a deep sleep.


Last edited by Motoko2030 on Sun May 28, 2006 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lightice



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Episode 26: Endless Gig (Contains spoilers) Reply with quote

Motoko2030 wrote:

Does anyone know the significance of the apples and who Kayabuki contacted?


I am not sure about the apples, though it seems that they symbolize some sort of connection between Kuze and Motoko. However, it's not difficult to guess, who Kayabuki contacted - the Japanese military leaders, who no-one had notified that her authority had been stripped. Remember how the guy in the helicopter who came to pick up Major, Kuze and Batou said, that the prime minister ordered them to come and most likely the fighters that gave a scare to the nuclear sub's crew acted under her orders, as well.
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Motoko2030



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the Tachikoma song that they sung while their AI satellite was on an intercept course with the nuclear missile, does anyone know the lyrics to it.
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secondhandevil



Joined: 07 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one that was kinda shocked at the way she just executed Gouda at point blank range when he was surrounded and boxed in like that.

I'm by no means a doveish individual and I actually firmly believe that a certain level of brutality is almost always required to preserve civilization,but that was just too extreme for my tastes.


Oh and as the soon-to-be official nitpicker of the board I'd like to mention that modern naval submarines need not surface in order to launch missiles.(And now I'm off to defile my latest copy of American Handgunner)
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cowboyfunk22



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's gouda, he has to have a spectacular death. I'm sure it would be a bit more discrete if it were real life, but hell this is tv, let him get shot up.


Speaking of the apples, when i saw them they looked too bright for the show. The season has been very dark, and bright green is not a color typically used in the pallete. So when the new tachikomas came out with a similar color, i felt there might be somewhat of a connection.

I was drunk while watching it, so the episode is pretty much a blur, but a good blur. I felt that the first season was alot better, but this episode closed the gap quite a bit.
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base of the pillar



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Gouda died spectacularly because think about it. If somebody had put you and the people you cared about through that much hell and you were given the chance for vengence wouldn't you go a little overboard.

The apple being symbolic of the fruit of the tree of knowledge in that the fact that a bite was taken symbolizes Kuze entering the net and the next faze of life. After all the major did secure all that space.

I also think that the prime minister didn't just call soldiers but called the U.N. and got there support which was what the guy, spacing on the name but he was the one working for Gouda with the white hair, was so mad at her about when they burst in. Its also why the sub gave up after seeing the planes.
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Tonks_kittygoth



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yey the Tachicoma's save everyone again! Boo, the Tachicomas all die again.... waaa. Tachi

So, When they were disinigrating at the end, it looked like thier little blue beams went into the space they reserved for the Major and Kuze's mass ghost transfer they seemed to be reconstructed again, and gave each other a high five. Does anyone think that they may come back with Kuze?? I do.
I thought it was nice that Proto said "Im sure you all have ghosts!" Or something close to that.

I found Batou's desparate fight to save the major, with all its symbolism touching.

Also It was nice that she admitted that she can trust him, and feels close to him when Kuze asked if she had anyone like that.

I also thought it was funny when Batou took his knife back from Kuze.

OH and Ishkawa was great, wacking the Ghouda flunky in the head with the nuke! Then telling him what for!

I have to admit that it was extremely satisfying to see Ghoda get all sorts of blown apart.... he was so frickin evil! You never get to see that in movies, ok cause it would be gross, and horrible in real life,.. but very satisfying in cartoon land. I cheered!

I bet if Batou had recognized the slimy American Diplomat who set him up in "Jungle Cruise" before he was done shooting he may have accidently missed Ghoda a little.. No not really he is too honorable for that, but he would have liked to Im sure.

Motoko 2030 wrote:
I love the song at the end of the episode, Christmas in the Silent Forest.

Thats on OST 3 track 10, *listening to it now*

douyang wrote:

I have a feeling it ties in to the agent who killed Gouda saying the A.E needs a Japan of docile consumers.

You mean killed Kuze right?

I think that he and the other agents were talking about concepts that Noam Chompsky often brings up, about how America controls its populace by distracting them with made up consumer needs, and television, distracts the younger, more rebellious sorts with sporting events, and video games, and keep the population ignorant by letting the public school system slip further down.

Individuals with dangerous thoughts are eather "suicided" (as Hunter S Thomson had told friends he feared before he mysteriously comitted suicide while talking on the phone about groceries or something with his wife), or discredited by being made out to be extremist, as in the case of Noam Chompsky. (who is a genius level linguist as well as politial theorist)

base of the pillar wrote:

The apple being symbolic of the fruit of the tree of knowledge in that the fact that a bite was taken symbolizes Kuze entering the net and the next faze of life. After all the major did secure all that space.


Yeh, Im with you on that one, because the last thing he said was, something to the point of, "I guess Ill go on ahead then."

I'm pretty sure who Kayabuki called was the "secret public safety airbourne" That someone referred too when seeing the planes. I dont think it was UN because they had the Japanese Sun symbol on the sides. Also while they showed them, they had her speaking about how Japan needs to distance it self not only from the American Empire, but the EU etc. and live self sufficiently.

I thought it was good, but I want more.... and a series too, not just a movie.... *pouts, stamps feet*

Very Happy Tachi
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Lightice



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

base of the pillar wrote:

The apple being symbolic of the fruit of the tree of knowledge in that the fact that a bite was taken symbolizes Kuze entering the net and the next faze of life. After all the major did secure all that space.


I'm afraid that doesn't make much sense to me. Kuze took a bite long before leaving his body. Also, I'm all but certain that the way Motoko and Kuze were going to bite those apples at the same time meant something special between them. There can be apple-symbology without Biblical implications, every now and then.

Quote:
I also think that the prime minister didn't just call soldiers but called the U.N. and got there support which was what the guy, spacing on the name but he was the one working for Gouda with the white hair, was so mad at her about when they burst in. Its also why the sub gave up after seeing the planes.


Unlikely. The whole idea was, that Kayabuki was showing independence and personal authority, instead of calling others for help. The sub's captain gave up simply, because threat from Japan meant, that they weren't happy getting parts of their country nuked, after all and the American Empire really can't afford starting another war in Asia.
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Motoko2030



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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After Kuze took a bite into the apple on the chopper, Motoko then realized that she knew Kuze from long ago so the apple represented a special connection between them, it could also represent that Kuze was going to die, taken from the Snow White.
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Jigabachi



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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snow White did not die from eating an apple, she just went into deep sleep, and I doubt this is the same case for Kuze.

From my speculation, Kuze can not open his mouth what so ever. But fact that he took a small bite of that apple, Motoko was suprised to witness that.
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After Kuze took a bite into the apple on the chopper, Motoko then realized that she knew Kuze from long ago so the apple represented a special connection between them, it could also represent that Kuze was going to die, taken from the Snow White.


Motoko knew much earlier, that she had known Kuze - that really couldn't be it. The Snow White symbology still seems somewhat far-fetched, too. I wonder what apple symbolizes in Japan...

Jigabachi wrote:

From my speculation, Kuze can not open his mouth what so ever. But fact that he took a small bite of that apple, Motoko was suprised to witness that.


He can open his mouth - his jaw works, but the facial muscles don't. Even cyborgs have to eat. His mouth is seen in various stages of openness, but his expression remains the same.

Incidentally, he moves his lips twice in the series. Once, when he's frantic to see the Individual Eleven-essay and the second time, at the very end. I remember an interview from the first series, where Kamiyama (I think it was him, anyhow - could remember wrong) said, that in the second episode with the rogue tank, it's last movements while stuck in the sticky stuff were no longer caused by it's engine, but the willpower of the Ghost inhabiting it - they left out the motor sounds, at that point, to subtly imply this. I'm guessing it's the same with Kuze's face - when he's under a strong emotion, his face can move, despite of it's physical impossibility.
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miki-chan



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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, brilliant ending to the series!
Proto sounded almost envious of the tachis. I wonder if he has a Ghost? I hope they'll explore his character more in SSS. And I hope the tachis do make a comeback, since it looks like they were moving their memories elsewhere (and the new mini-tanks don't seem nearly as endearing)...
So I guess Kayabuki did call the military--but the Cabinet Sec., Aramaki, et al seemed to assume that she was calling someone else. I wonder who?
Loved those evil CIA guys making a return appearance, bwa ha haah! Yeah, Gohda's end was kinda messy, but I don't suppose they could just let him defect to the AE (hey, kinda like the programmer in the 1st movie!).
And Ishikawa sucker-punching that CIS twerp with his cast--Ishikawa rawks! Laughing
There's been much discussion of the apples, but what did anyone make of Batou and that girder? He did suffer during this, but I don't think he was exactly Christ-like...At least we know that Motoko appreciates him.
Kuze's death was the real disappointment here. One would think that his death would make him a martyr, and the refugees would be absolutely furious w/ the Japanese gov't and/or the AE...
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Motoko2030



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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Tachikomas are gone forever, at the end of the episode, Section 9 replaced the Tachikomas with Uchikoma to replace the Tachikomas, the Uchikoma is a cross between a Tachikoma and a Fuchikoma. I assume that in Solid State Society that we could see the Uchikomas in action.
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