Who am I the forum dominatrix? (from quotes)

[Jeni Nielsen]

I'm just glad to see you two getting along again. I had no idea that threadding this topic would lead to such strong emotions being let out.

[Tonks_kittygoth]

Yey!

Yeh, us veggies must stick together even when we annoy each other sometimes!

*resolves to self not to post when emotional,...or go grocery shoping when hungry...*

Sounds like your school was a nice place. I went to a similar one strangely enough... we had nice hippy nuns and Priests too. The service work love everyone kind, not like the tv hit you with a ruler kind.

I couldnt buy my neice a bratz doll eaither! LOL I got her fairytopia ones, cause they are much prettyier!

Morrigan would be good! I love playing her on superpuzzlefighter turbo!

*looks around for gameboy to play superpuzzlefighter turbo*

[douyang]

Look, I feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to kill themselves over something like this. Really, it's not the insult that's at fault, it is whatever caused them to have such poor self-esteem in the first place. Okay, I guess the insult would be part of that. But you say I have to get used to what I dislike, because it's everywhere (paraphrasing). That's not true though. I don't have to get used to it because I'm not going to go killing myself over it. Nothing dire is going to happen to me because I can't accept this stuff. However, on the other end it is much more important that others are able to accept the criticism... or rather, simply accept being unaccepted. Political correctness is all well and good, but you can go to far- you have to accept that some things are going to be weird to "normal" society no matter what (and yes, I still use that word "normal"; you can define it as "safe" if you wish but it does really stand for something loosely with people or else we wouldn't be feeling the need to use it still. Unless you want to go ahead and insult me by saying I'm using it to feel "safe" because I so obviously can't deal with outside stuff, or some rubbish). And it doesn't mean you have to do what they say, it just means you get on with it, probably privately if you're being nice to everyone, and well, just learn to get comfortable with being yourself anyway. You know, learn to live without validation in many aspects of your life, because you will never get it. Instead of being a big baby and flying into a fit of "political correctness" all the time.

I think you're missing the entire point here. She's trying to say (and I agree with her) that certain consensual sexual activities or relationships should not be seen as "abnormal" or wrong, or cause the people practicing them to be ostracized, discriminated against, or otherwise harmed by society for. That the problem with these things lies with people's prejudices against them.

What you just said here sounds dangerously like something a self-serving bigot would say in order to shift the blame for his own bigotry and consequent actions onto the victim. Like saying a gay man has no right to complain about getting beat up or denied a job (or even called names like "faggot" and having people stare and mutter at him, which is less extreme and closer to what I interpret you as saying) because it's his own fault for choosing to be openly gay and going out on dates in public places with another man. That they should just take that crap, and that the alternative is "whining" over "political correctness". I fail to see how demanding that you be treated without prejudice is mindless "political correctness".

What you said earlier about not wanting things you find offensive or abnormal forced on you doesn't make sense to me either. If you don't want to read books about BDSM fantasies, don't. That's your prerogative. Just like it is the author's prerogative to write and publish her material, and the right of others to read it if they wish. You saying that it's wrong for them to be expressing their love for their particular sexual fetish is akin to censoring them just because you feel uncomfortable with it.

I can understand that there are some situations where you have no choice to be exposed to stuff you find offensive or would want to avoid, like Victoria's secret billboards, TV, etc. But I believe that that's life, and that like Kittygoth said, you will simply have to learn to live with these offensive things in a free society where people can express themselves and their beliefs, regardless of how offensive or upsetting anyone may find them.

[Jeni Nielsen]

Oyyyy.... I shouldn't even be replying to this, because we've talked about it already and it's -near as I can tell- all settled.

I was going to lock this topic some time ago. Are you still ok with it being left open? Cause I'm sure either one of us could take care of it.

[douyang]

If you don't want to read books about BDSM fantasies, don't. That's your prerogative. Just like it is the author's prerogative to write and publish her material, and the right of others to read it if they wish. You saying that it's wrong for them to be expressing their love for their particular sexual fetish is akin to censoring them just because you feel uncomfortable with it.

Well, I don't think the author should be banned from writing the story, no. Although I kind of did in her case, it was just so sick and evil. And I mean that in the sense that it appeared to celebrate some really nasty things that happen to innocent people in the real world and actually hurt them terribly. In fact, I think it's disgusting to make light of such things. Those nasty porno movies whose existence of which are the stuff of rumours in the world- those movies where people are brutalised and fed their own intestines or something like that (I had the misfortune of picking up a mag about asian cinema once; it looked like it had a great interview with Maggie Cheung on the cover and some cool articles about the summer's blockbusters over there, but inside their was also a huge section devoted to horrible things and a 7 page letters column filled to the brim with writings from fans of that "genre")- it's good that those are banned. But generally speaking, no, I don't think that someone should be banned from writing an "innocent" BDSM story. If that's what they like and they are writing for others who like that too, fine. I and many others will think they are weirdos, but fine. However, they really are under an obligation to say it may contain a certain kind of objectionable material. Here's the thing: How can I possibly exert my right not to read or see something, if somebody doesn't tell me what I am reading? We have that system for films and even music (though often that gets overlooked), why not books and comics and stuff like that?

You didn't yet 'kinda' did? Make up your mind, or nobody will know what you're arguing for.

Practically anything and everything in the world is objectionable in some way or another. Some material may be more offensive to more people than the rest, but this is besides the point... It is up to you and you alone to decide for yourself, and not others, what you should be exposed to. By creating a rating system similar to the ESRB for printed materials, aren't you to an extent deciding for others what is "decent"? By calling for an outright ban on certain materials which you consider particularly horrible, aren't you promoting censorship in one of its most blatant forms, in blatant contradiction of your statement that you just want warning labels?

I don't buy the idea that you can't exert your right not to be exposed to offensive materials if there isn't a label saying it's offensive. All you do if you rely on other people's ratings and labels to tell whether you will find the contents offensive or not is let others think and decide for you on what is objectionable instead of examining the actual contents and making an intelligent, informed decision for yourself. How can you possibly tell the book promotes evil unless you open it up and read it, aside from trusting in the blind dogma created by others? If you read something and find it that bad, you can always just stop and put the book down.

I never said I was into BDSM, or that we should have not ethical opinions. But I do believe in a free society that really believes in morality and truth as opposed to blind obedience to and trust in dogma, we need a free marketplace of ideas and opinions.