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Live-Action Aftermath
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GhostLine



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Live-Action Aftermath Reply with quote

http://www.motofire.com/2017/04/video/ride-ghost-shell-honda/
Honda's GitS cycle...made for film, but based on a previous unsuccessful model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAxt0UkezXI
Some Japanese fan reactions of the film...opposite of what I think many Westerners would expect to hear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIye4geHTwU
WIRED does a story on the FX of the film...pretty cool.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, those SFX are fantastic. After watching Adam Savage visit WETA I'm sorry they didn't get to actually use the practical effects costume or the frame for the shelling, but the outcome I guess shows they made all the right choices.


I'm not a motorcycle rider, but that is one cool looking bike. It really ought to be electric though. I think being silent would add to the effect.
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moreorless



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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ironic thing for me about all the talk around Rinko Kikiuchi as a potential alternative casting seemed to be based on her featuring in Pacific Rim. Whilst I wouldn't take serious issue with that film given its light tone for me is actually a much more obvious example of both white washing pushing western actors into a Kaiju film and indeed of her character being a pretty clichéd view of Japan, the kawai kick ass schoolgirl kind of role naturally playing second fiddle to the western hero.

As far as Beat goes I personally thought him speaking Japanese rather than English worked pretty well. It gave the character some aloof distance from the rest of section 9 and I think played on the idea that important officials don't bend to the language of others, the idea that Japanese CEO's for example often use translators even if they can speak English. His Aramaki didn't have a great deal to do its true but really you could say that for most of section 9 with the film being focused very heavily on the Major and to a lesser degree Batou.

I did feel as well that the design work added a lot of successful little touches to the film. On a macro level I think it was never going to have the impact of say the Matrix in the late 90's due to the direct and indirect influence of Oshii's film on cinema being so great plus of course it was taking across a lot of the visuals from both films. Given that I think it was important to bring as much originality as possible on a micro level design/FX wise.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that scene where Aramaki is obviously about to die and then demonstrates that those sent to kill him are amateurs was great. What I saw I that is that he's not just a great executive, he is a great executive because he rose through the ranks and knows how handle himself on the street.

That, and I'd like to have a bullet proof brief case.
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moreorless



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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I tend to agree, earlier on I think the film plays on the idea that Aramaki might not be so different from Cutter yet seeing him able to stand up for himself like this obviously helps gives the message that he retains more of a connection to those who work under him.

Another issue mentioned by the Japanese fans in the Majors character I think depends a lot on which version of the character your talking about. Granted its been years since I'v watched it and then in limited amounts but the Major in SAC to me clearly seems different to the Major in Oshii's first film.

She's very competent in both versions and has a "poker face" yet in Oshii's the character is obviously emotionally vulnerable. To display that and her deliberately un expressive nature would I think be very difficult, not just in terms of Oshii's ambition but the differences in media as well, animation does I think allow him to show a lot of emotion though the majors doll like features, especially though her eyes.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are a couple of reasons for he change in how expressive the Majors face is. In the original film where she is poker faced I think that may also be a projection of the limit of a full body prosthetic. Even in 2nd Gig, Kuzes face is beautiful but immobile because the artist that made it was not a roboticist.

I think we're seeing a progression of the expectations of the tech of the future based on our own tech progressions. Compare 1960s Star Trek to 2000s Enterprise. Enterprise is supposed to be less modern that TOS, but in the 40 years between the two shows our own tech frequently surpassed TOS. At least TOS correctly predicted flat screen TVs, just not their ubiquity.

So while ScarJo had a full body suit on the make her body flatter and faker, her face was left fully expressive. Although she's something new and in GitS the Majors body was designed to appear off-the-rack.
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moreorless



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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did have the likes of the Blade Runner Replicants well before GitS of course but they were implied to be mostly organic where as GitS has always tended to focus on eternalising its technology which I spose would be viewed as a little an anachronistic today, the film does almost feel like a time capsule of a view of the future from the 80's and 90's.

As you say the needs of the plot did shifted as well with the Major not just "top of the line" but a big leap in technology above anything else we see bar Kuze. Also though I think the film does obviously differ from Oshii's in how its drama evolves, rather than having the Major becoming more disassociated from her humanity during the film she starts more from that position and ends up rediscovering it making the opposite choice at the end(with Kuze talking the Puppet Master role). I think you see that in Johansson's performance being more poker faced early on but becoming more expressive as the film progresses.

I do think you need to consider as well that the film was always going to be working within certain limitations as a non R action blockbuster. In that respect I do think it deserves credit for just how much it pushed against those boundries(compared to most such films that we see these days) to include for me a surprising amount of Oshii's film(help I spose by the Major not being flesh and blood). The tank body rripping was I think used very effectively again as a climax even if it was to a very different story. Likewise I think getting as close to nude thermoptics as possible worked as more than just sex appeal, for me that gives a grace to scenes involved and helps sell the majors strangeness and emotional vulnerability well. You were not going to get an atmospheric slow moving character study though, it was always going to be faster moving plot/action wise than that.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd forgotten this until just now. The attempted reboot of The Bionic Woman. She discovers after a few episodes that she is not version 1 and that at least the one right before her was driven psychotic by the process.

Perhaps this is more of a mashup between Robocop and Bionic Woman? It certainly has story elements from both.
The villainous corporation that destroys people just to use them as parts. (RC)
The previous model is unstable and on the loose (BW)
The nouns that are applied to things (GitS)

The embedded peren in the URL break the embedded url mechanism in this version of phpBB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionic_Woman_(2007_TV_series)
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moreorless



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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous model idea is a pretty common plotline though, Data and Lor from TNG comes to mind for example. I wouldn't be supprised if there was always a bit of a Bionic Woman influence on GitS though going right back to the manga mixed in with stuff like Terminator, Blade Runner and indeed Robocop.

The main differences in plot to the latter I'd say is first that Hanka actually "kill" Motoko who was previously in opposition to them rather than just using her body after death ala Murphy. Then that the control isn't so overt, from the start its clear OCP is acting in an exploitative manner where as Hanka's control isn't so total or obviously exploitive with the Major nominally having a good deal of indepenance. Whilst this version of GitS feels slightly anachronistic in some respects I think this shift to the story works much better for the modern era than the Robocop remake playing on the fear of big business having "softer" control via the net.

Emotion wise I would say as well that whilst playing the Major in total doll like fashion would be very hard and perhaps not ideal for this story Johansson is probably one of the best actresses(at least the best well known one) they could have for playing a role very subtley when needed. I'm guessing the #1 reason they went with her was stuff like Under the Skin and Lucy were she's playing a similar kind of emotionally withdrawn role but manages to bring character/emotion to them still rather than just being bland, actually I think quite similar to Binoche earlier in her career.
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GhostLine



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freitag wrote:
I'd forgotten this until just now. The attempted reboot of The Bionic Woman. She discovers after a few episodes that she is not version 1 and that at least the one right before her was driven psychotic by the process.

Well, if you recall, the writer for Bionic Woman, Laeta Kalogridis, was one of the first screenwriters offered to take a crack at the Ghost in the Shell script....

Oh, and I am fine with having this thread moved to the proper forum heading.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostLine wrote:
Well, if you recall, the writer for Bionic Woman, Laeta Kalogridis, was one of the first screenwriters offered to take a crack at the Ghost in the Shell script....


Oh, I had not made that connection. Yeah, that's a dead give away.

In another thread
http://www.neomythos.com/gitsphpBB/viewtopic.php?p=13188#13188
we hit on something that jumped out to me to a culturally relevant topic.

In the movie that make a big deal about accepting things. "This is Major and I accept this procedure" and then they call it out when she says "I do NOT accept" and the response is "We've never needed your permission." The whole EULA thing that we deal with these days. No one reads those things. South Park did a whole episode about that too.
That was a new thread added to the tapestry that helps keep GitS relevant to the audience.
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a nice way of making the film a bit more contemporary in a fashion that didn't really need a great deal of explanation.

That does also I think play into the main shift in the Majors character which we see most clearly in the scenes with Dr Ouellet. Whilst competent professionally due i'd imagine to the kind of cyber learning we see earlier and her body she's shown as also being rather childlike with a clear mother/daughter relationship here(probably why the film goes with "1 year later" not say "5 years latter") which obviously feeds into what we see latter in the film.

Again I think that does rather highlight why Johansson was ultimately cast over several other well known good looking actresses who've played action roles. You watch Under the Skin and the second half of that is a similar if more extreme kind of performance playing up a childlike naivety of someone in an adult(but inhuman) body, the scene with the prostitute in GitS especially sails very close I'd say.
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the plot I would say as well that I don't think its as simple as wanting to revert to somewhat more straight forward, granted I do think that was likely an issue but also I think you need to consider the era the film was made.

The original manga and Oshii's first film were created in an era where the internet was still in its infancy which I think made looking forward the natural choice. The idea of a techno apotheosis was still a pretty fresh concept at that point afterall where as we've seen a great many of them told since(granted few nearly as well).

Whilst we haven't reached the tech level of GitS we are living in the internet age now to the degree a lot of viewers won't have experience of anything else. In that position I do think theres merit in focusing more heavily on the negative side of technology(which obviously is in over various if GitS) and also on the major traveling in the other direction. That is start off with her being fed that idea that she's a massive advancement but have the journey be one of both overcoming establishment control and of reclaiming her own humanity.

One other film that comes to mind for me is Johassen's own Lucy from a couple of years ago. Generally I did feel it was a pleasant return to form for Besson(even with the hokey premise) and in some respects I think it takes a few more dramatic risks than GitS but I also rather felt it missed out on telling a better story. The first hour of the film for me was much more effective firstly showing the lead character reacting to being kidnapped in a very realistic fashion(no smart talking comebacks, just extreme fear) and then actually undermining the typical superhero wish fulfilment fantasy by having her newfound abilities shown negatively in costing much of her humanity. The 2001 style ending was fun(if lacking the gravitas of Kurbik) but I think it would have been better to stick with that earlier drama such as GitS does.
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GhostLine



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of what many feel about the adaptation itself, one has to admit the SFX were high caliber...at least the Academy thinks so as Ghost in the Shell has been placed on the Oscar shortlist for Visual Effects.
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moreorless wrote:
One other film that comes to mind for me is Johassen's own Lucy from a couple of years ago ... and then actually undermining the typical superhero wish fulfilment fantasy by having her newfound abilities shown negatively in costing much of her humanity


that reminds me of a cyberpunk genre game I played in the 80s. Typical RPG in most ways but you also had a humanity stat. Every augmentation decreased your humanity be a certain amount. I forget what the threshold was but your character would become essentially unplayable at that point. For game balance that was probably a way to prevent what in GitS is called full cyberization. I recall they suggested that your character would become psychotic; think Street Preacher from Johnny Mnemonic - too much lost humanity.
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