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Questions about Batou
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Tonks_kittygoth



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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Location: The dark dark woods where the kitten monsters live....or happy la la land, my summer home.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Hello,

Ok I searched about a bit and don't see this topic already done, if it is, I appologise and ask for directions to said topic.

I have some questions about Batou.

1. It says (usually) that he isnt full cyborg, what is his percentage and which bits are real? (I'm guessing head as I posted in another post because of his broken nose, and a bit in the manga where he complains about the Major hitting him. And maybe an arm, hence the excercise equipment.)

2. How old is he? Good guesses? Is his hair grey or blond?

3. Is he supposed to be Japanese, cause he sure doenst look it. Not that there are not of course many sorts of Japanese men's body type, but he looks more Eastern European/Russian/American.

4. Was he in the Japanese rangers or another countries, (see q 3)

5. Does Gabriel show up in S.A.C.? (I love her! She should! But she probably is staying at Oshii's house while he works.)

6. Is he the only one the Major hangs out with in her down time? Besides the girls she hangs out with.

7. Why does he keep the Ranger Eyes?

8. I'm guessing Batou is a nickname, considering the God Batou, who is horse headed = pony tail, protecter of animals = gabriel, and protecter against injustice/easily angered god = his temperment.
So does anyone know his real name? Does he?

Im sure I have more Q's but these will do. Please answer!!!!!!!

Very Happy
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Motoko2030



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the percentage of his body, which is cybernetic, the official Stand Alone Complex says that he has a cyberbrain and his cybernetic eyes but according to wikipedia, most of his body is composed of cybernetic prosthetics, so I will have to go with that most of his body is composed of cybernetic prosthetics. The reason that he exercises is to exercise his mind and not his body.

As for his age that remain a mystery, I would say that he is between 30 and 40 years old.

Yes, the only person that he seems to hang with is Motoko after work.

In SAC, we never see Batou's home, so it is unclear if he has Gabriel in this alternate universe, though I doubt he has a dog in SAC since it was Mamoru Oshii's idea for Batou to have a dog named Gabriel.

Other members will be able to answer rest of your questions.
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:

1. It says (usually) that he isnt full cyborg, what is his percentage and which bits are real? (I'm guessing head as I posted in another post because of his broken nose, and a bit in the manga where he complains about the Major hitting him. And maybe an arm, hence the excercise equipment.)


Only in the manga he states not to be a full cyborg. In all other continuums he is. The first movie is ambigious, but considering, that Major seems to extend her self-doubt to an extent to Batou as well, and she also comment on how they both can process alcohol in their internal chemical plants in matter of seconds.

Quote:
2. How old is he? Good guesses? Is his hair grey or blond?


He is ash-blonde everywhere, except Innocence, where his hair is almost white. Hair-colour doesn't mean anything for age even now, though and certainly not in his era. I imagine that he's around the same age as Kusanagi, which would mean late-20's to very early 30's. He appears older, at times, but remember that he used to be a soldier and has experienced much more than an average guy of his age - that is bound to take it's toll on a person. In the movie continuum all the characters are older, though.

Quote:
3. Is he supposed to be Japanese, cause he sure doenst look it. Not that there are not of course many sorts of Japanese men's body type, but he looks more Eastern European/Russian/American.


He's Japanese by nationality and considering his occupation, I think it'd be very odd if he were an immigrant. It would certainly come up in the 2nd Gig, if that was the case. Since he's a cyborg and an anime character to boot, we can forgive his somewhat un-Japanese looks.

Quote:
4. Was he in the Japanese rangers or another countries, (see q 3)


The Japanese Section 4 Rangers. There is no ambiguity in that, at least in the SAC universe.

Quote:
5. Does Gabriel show up in S.A.C.? (I love her! She should! But she probably is staying at Oshii's house while he works.)


She is Oshii's dog so I doubt that we'll see anything of her in the SAC. Besides, SAC Batou once remarks, that he doesn't get well along with dogs.

Quote:
6. Is he the only one the Major hangs out with in her down time? Besides the girls she hangs out with.


Who knows - their private lives are mysteries. Motoko seems to prefer to spend her free time with female friends, but does seem to enjoy Batou's company, as long as he isn't pushing it - she wasn't interested in going to movies with him, for example. Batou, himself doesn't seem to have much of a social life and the same seems to apply to most members of Section 9. I suppose that it's difficult to form relations with people outside work in their jobs.

Quote:
7. Why does he keep the Ranger Eyes?


They're useful to have and besides, they're his eyes. I don't think that changing parts once you've gotten used to them is very fun, even for a full-prosthetic cyborg.

Quote:
8. I'm guessing Batou is a nickname, considering the God Batou, who is horse headed = pony tail, protecter of animals = gabriel, and protecter against injustice/easily angered god = his temperment.
So does anyone know his real name? Does he?


Batou is an alias, yes, like all the names used in Section 9, apart from Togusa and propably Aramaki. They all want to keep their identities ambigious, like the organization they work for. Togusa's wife thinks that her husband works for a private security company and it seems, that Motoko's friends think she's a police (well, she is, in a way, but I don't think they know her actual occupation). Some of them, at least Major have completely erased their former identity for reasons unknown.

Quote:
Please answer!!!!!!!


Please, you only need one exclamation mark, max. No more are needed to make your point - we do notice one just as well as seven.
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Tonks_kittygoth



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Quote:
Only in the manga he states not to be a full cyborg. In all other continuums he is. The first movie is ambigious, but considering, that Major seems to extend her self-doubt to an extent to Batou as well, and she also comment on how they both can process alcohol in their internal chemical plants in matter of seconds.


Mmm, actually I have seen it writen a few places he is not full, close but not full, I believe in the "after the long goodbye" and in the "Log vol 1" but I am at work and cannot check.
The reason I suspect he retains his original head is his apearance, he has a pretty distinctive broken boxer nose, which, though possible, seems unlikely to come in a standard head model.
It could be a custom model, but they point out, custom models have a hard time making expressions, and Batou is always pulling some sort of goofy face.
The alcohol thing would be effective in any form of cybernetic digestive system I would guess, so you could just have had say stomach cancer and had your digestive system replaced you probably would be able to have the processing thing work... I think.
I suppose it is likely that no one ever said, and no one ever will say deffinitively about most of all of our questions.


Quote:
He's Japanese by nationality and considering his occupation, I think it'd be very odd if he were an immigrant. It would certainly come up in the 2nd Gig, if that was the case. Since he's a cyborg and an anime character to boot, we can forgive his somewhat un-Japanese looks.


Hmmm, well, I guess, Im still sort of a skeptic...
Do you think it would come up? It seemed to be more of an issue about war refugees that overloaded the economy, i.e. they couldn't find enough jobs/housing for them.
For instance the current issue with Mexican immigrants in California. Someone from say, China wouldn't be hassled, but someone from say Brazil may, because they may resemble in accent and looks a Mexican Immigrant. So I don't know if anyone would mention his nationality in refernce to the crisis at hand as he doesn't resemble someone from the affected nations. ( I havent seen farther than I believe the name was Red Date, the one with the drug smuggling kid.)


Quote:
The Japanese Section 4 Rangers. There is no ambiguity in that, at least in the SAC universe.


When do they mention section 4? Is it in jungle cruise? I only saw that once. Is there a list of sections.


Quote:
She is Oshii's dog so I doubt that we'll see anything of her in the SAC. Besides, SAC Batou once remarks, that he doesn't get well along with dogs.


Does he? huh,... I didn't remember that, well, he seems to like the cyber dogs with the grindy teeth, at least he didn't want to hurt them.

Maybe they put the line about not getting along with dogs in to be a joke on the differnce between the Oshii universe and this one.


Quote:
They're useful to have and besides, they're his eyes.


Yeh, I can totaly see him being sentimental about his eyes.



Quote:
They all want to keep their identities ambigious,


I wish they would have say, back story movies about them, or novels. It is a sign of a well rounded charecter, I suppose, that we are certain that they have a past and future! :wink:

Quote:
Please, you only need one exclamation mark, max. No more are needed to make your point - we do notice one just as well as seven.


Sorry, but nope.
I hope plural punctuation does not have some personal deep offence to you, but it is part of my own mode of comunication, sort of like smilies are to some people.
If I can keep my forgetful brain in harness, I will refrain from using any extrainous punctuation when personaly replying or writing to you, but as this is an informal forum, I feel my punctuative expression of verbal emotion is acceptable. Oh and I make up words too.

Thanks for all your answers and discussion! I really appreciate your time and effort. Also thanks for such a nice welcome to the forum.

Wink Very Happy
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:

Mmm, actually I have seen it writen a few places he is not full, close but not full, I believe in the "after the long goodbye" and in the "Log vol 1" but I am at work and cannot check.


I have not read After the Long Goodbye, but it takes place in the Innocence universe and it says very clearly in the original Innocence trailer, as well as the movie's intro, that Batou is a full cyborg with only parts of his human brain left. There is no mention of being only a partial cyborg in the Offical Log, either.

Quote:
The reason I suspect he retains his original head is his apearance, he has a pretty distinctive broken boxer nose, which, though possible, seems unlikely to come in a standard head model.
It could be a custom model, but they point out, custom models have a hard time making expressions, and Batou is always pulling some sort of goofy face.


You have misunderstood what they said about custom faces in the 2nd Gig. Kuze's problem, if you can call it that, is unique to himself - it doesn't come along with all custom faces. It is only through the skill of the face-artist, that he looks like human, at all, instead of mannequin or a robot. Batou's face is most likely modelled after his human face, or else he just wanted to have a nose with an attitude.

Quote:
The alcohol thing would be effective in any form of cybernetic digestive system I would guess, so you could just have had say stomach cancer and had your digestive system replaced you probably would be able to have the processing thing work... I think.


Also note, that in SAC Batou does several times jumps and falls that would reduce him into a pulp, if he had any organic meatware left in his exterior. Your claims of organic head, too are rather void, in the light of the ending of the first season - the exterior of his skull cracks, when getting a beating from armored suit and we see metal under it - no blood emerges, either. Also read this, if you don't fear spoilers:

Spoiler wrote:
Later in the 2nd Gig he gets his leg twisted around and a steel pipe stuck through his chest. Not a drop of blood is seen and he treats the state like an inconvinience, not like life-threatening wounds.


Quote:
Hmmm, well, I guess, Im still sort of a skeptic...
Do you think it would come up? It seemed to be more of an issue about war refugees that overloaded the economy, i.e. they couldn't find enough jobs/housing for them.


Even though that is the case, there would most definately be a mention of some sort, or just a clear note of sympathy towards the refugees, something that we don't see him express - besides, I don't think that even in the 2030's a foreigner could get to a position like his - this is Japan we're talking about. I wonder if they still have immigrated citizens even in the ordinary police.

Quote:
When do they mention section 4? Is it in jungle cruise? I only saw that once. Is there a list of sections.


They make their appearance in the 2nd Gig, later on. Before that Batou's membership to them was speculated due to the Rangers-mention in the first season and the talk of Section 4 Rangers in the first movie. The 2nd Gig removes the ambiguities, in this matter. There is no list of the Sections - the only ones seen ever are Section 1, Section 4 and ofcourse Section 9.

Quote:
Sorry, but nope.
I hope plural punctuation does not have some personal deep offence to you, but it is part of my own mode of comunication, sort of like smilies are to some people.


It gives impression of either excessive shouting or giddy, enthusiastic squealing, neither which I am very fond of, in web or in real life. While the forum is an informal place and neither a perfect grammar or formal tones are required it's common courtesy in RL, as well as in the net not to shout in people's ears. Take this as an advice for the future, not a complaint.
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csulu



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Lightice wrote:

Sections - the only ones seen ever are Section 1, Section 4 and ofcourse Section 9.
.

Based on the movies i think its safe to assume there is a section 6 in SAC.
What i know about the sections is:
Section 9:SWAT/CIA combined in a way.
Section 4:Special forces.
Section 6:Beurocrats i guess(wikipedia says Ministry of Foreign Affairs)

Also what did section 1 do?
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Tonks_kittygoth



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csulu
Makes me curious as to what 2 3 5 and 7 are up too. Maybe they are incharge of the glue on postage stamps or something. Shocked

Lightice,
I'm still going to have to be skeptical on a couple points, though your arguements are good.

Wiki, Otaku central, and actually this sites main page use the wording most for B's cyberization, with other wording like nearly all for Ms. Major. so Im still thinking, along with some vauge memory of seeing a percentage like 85% somewhere on him, that he has some squishie bits. Maybe its his left kidney and his little toe bone. Whatever, It doenst really mater, I was just wondering if someone knew for Sure Sure.

The squishing any gooey bits with long jumps seems not to hold as much water, since he only jumps a story or two, not the skyscrapery jumps like the Major.
Us fleshies can deal with that much. Then again he doesnt like heights as much eaither.

I like the nose with an attitude idea. It just seemed as if it wasnt a possibility to choose from what was said in whatever episode that was in. I have to see the episode again, but I asked my husband and he remembers the wording the same way as I do, that most people with cyber heads have standard heads, and customs are hard to move about. Dont have the episode though so Ill have to wait. No big though, just a theory that I thought was fun.

Bringing up the blood thing, thats weird. There seems to be some disagreement between the universes and the shows/ maybe with in shows too.
I didnt think about the blood thing at all, cause it seems animes get a routine de-goreing of the bloody stuff, at least the american versions.
When he shoots him self up in Innocence there is blood, and they make it clear that the old arm was cyber.
In Cash eye the creepy pervert dude coments on the Majors white blood, and Arimaki corrects him, that she is a cyborg not a ai.
So does that imply that for any fleshy components cyborgs need blood blood?
I think I saw some other cyborg red blood too... anyone else have ideas on this subject?

And finally, about the damn stupid punctuation, we aparntly travel in diff. web circles. Excessive puntuation has alway connotated to me, and those I have met, freindly enthusiasm, nothing more.
A loud voice was denotated by all caps, or underlineing.
I dont squeal like a madwoman, and am struggling not to take your coment pejoritvely, as I hope it is not meant that way.
All in all, Chill, its not that serious. Take care. ~T~
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

csulu wrote:

Section 6:Beurocrats i guess(wikipedia says Ministry of Foreign Affairs)


Yeah, I should have clarified I meant in the SAC continuum. They are the foreign intelligence service in the movie and manga, similar to CIA, or so they come off as. They don't offically employ cyborgs fior diplomatic reasons, but they do use thermo-optic camouflage. It seemed to me, that the Cabinet Intelligence Service has taken a good deal of their fuction, though it is possible, that they just gather the information and then pass it to the CIS.

Quote:
Also what did section 1 do?


We see them kill Shou Kawashima, who they believed to be a foreign terrorist Wong Chu Ren, in episode 8 of the 2nd Gig. Their full job description isn't very clear, but in the manga they employ some seriously heavy firepower in form of huge multiped tanks.

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:
Wiki, Otaku central, and actually this sites main page use the wording most for B's cyberization, with other wording like nearly all for Ms. Major. so Im still thinking, along with some vauge memory of seeing a percentage like 85% somewhere on him, that he has some squishie bits. Maybe its his left kidney and his little toe bone. Whatever, It doenst really mater, I was just wondering if someone knew for Sure Sure.


Neither Wiki nor Otaku central is an offical source - on the other hand, I do have a recollection of Batou's specs being mentioned to be a full cyborg in the Production IG's Stand Alone Complex page, when it still was in it's more informative incarnation. There is once again no ambiguity, that Batou in Innocence is a completely full cyborg, but trying to mix different continuities isn't a smart thing to do, in the case of this bit of fiction. I've never seen any particular percentages, anywhere - it would be helpful to see the sources.

Quote:
The squishing any gooey bits with long jumps seems not to hold as much water, since he only jumps a story or two, not the skyscrapery jumps like the Major.


Episode 8 of the first season, I might point out. Batou sits on top of a crane, that is most definately over a hundred feet tall, possibly as much as triple that height. He had no qualms about jumping down from there.
Don't argue with a man who knows his trivia. Wink

Quote:
most people with cyber heads have standard heads, and customs are hard to move about. Dont have the episode though so Ill have to wait.


It is possible, that information has been messed up in the dub, but since I never watch those, given an alternative, there is no way I can tell. In the original Japanese script, though, it is obvious that the fact that Kuze can't move his mouth and the fact, that he has a custom-made face from a top-quality artist are in no way directly related. Besides, in flashbacks he has the same face, but his mouth moves just fine. Also, in the episode, where a refugee attempted to blackmail the Energy Ministery and got hit by a truck it was said that his body was entirely ordinary model, with face as the only unique feature.
Oh, and at least in the manga universe it has been stated, that most cyborgs prefer to have custom-made parts, if they can afford them, to keep their sense of individuality. Motoko is an exception with her generic outer shell, designed to discourage body-robbers, by giving off cheap appearance, despite of her ultra-high specs.

Quote:
When he shoots him self up in Innocence there is blood, and they make it clear that the old arm was cyber.
In Cash eye the creepy pervert dude coments on the Majors white blood, and Arimaki corrects him, that she is a cyborg not a ai.
So does that imply that for any fleshy components cyborgs need blood blood?
I think I saw some other cyborg red blood too...


Yes, that is something, that doesn't seem an entirely fixed matter in the SAC universe. The bad guy at the very beginning of the first season definately bled, although it was obvious that he was a full cyborg. However, Kuze doesn't bleed at the episode 3 of the 2nd Gig, when he gets shot full of holes and Batou's wounds never seem to bleed, either. They do have to have a some sort of circulation in order to keep the brain alive, though. Possibly it varies between different models, how through the circulation is. Or just, that the creators changed their minds about the visual effects.

Quote:
And finally, about the damn stupid punctuation, we aparntly travel in diff. web circles. Excessive puntuation has alway connotated to me, and those I have met, freindly enthusiasm, nothing more.
A loud voice was denotated by all caps, or underlineing.
I dont squeal like a madwoman, and am struggling not to take your coment pejoritvely, as I hope it is not meant that way.


While I'm not sure, what "pejoritvely" means, I assume it's something in the lines of insulting or malign - no, I wasn't trying to be anything on those lines - I was simply warning against it. We do seem to move in different circles, though - some forums I visit would chew newbies alive for punctuation like that - I don't mean to offend you with this, either, it's just a statement of fact and one I've gotten rather used to.

Quote:
All in all, Chill, its not that serious.


You're right - it's not serious. Simply a bit of etiquette I'm fond of. It's simply, that when some rules of courtesy get broken, it seems to get easier to break others as well - that doesn't happen always, but often enough that I like remind people of such standards, if they seem to be forgotten. No offense meant, as long as there wasn't any meant on your side, either.
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H-street



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

[quote="Lightice"]
Tonks_kittygoth wrote:

.

Quote:
8. I'm guessing Batou is a nickname, considering the God Batou, who is horse headed = pony tail, protecter of animals = gabriel, and protecter against injustice/easily angered god = his temperment.
So does anyone know his real name? Does he?


Batou is an alias, yes, like all the names used in Section 9, apart from Togusa and propably Aramaki. They all want to keep their identities ambigious, like the organization they work for. Togusa's wife thinks that her husband works for a private security company and it seems, that Motoko's friends think she's a police (well, she is, in a way, but I don't think they know her actual occupation). Some of them, at least Major have completely erased their former identity for reasons unknown.


Its probably along the lines of the Matrix idea (or i should say the matrix got it from GITS) that you give your self your own identity..

the World gives you one name, but its your self identity that makes you , You..

I would imagine it has something to do that when you go Full Cyborg, you have lost the person the world said you were.. considering as a cyborg you are no longer limited by your biological image..

kindof like the major said in the movie,

its only because she has a human apperance that she feels human (basedon the way others treat her for looking human).

In the matrix he was known as Anderson, in the realworld he is known as Neo.
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Qwuff



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the REAL question about Batou is why he lacks eyebrows. Razz
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Tonks_kittygoth



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, thats another weird one, sometimes he does sometimes he doesnt. Rolling Eyes
Maybe its cause they are white blond they are hard to see. Shocked
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has eyebrows in Innocence, but nowhere else. Most likely they give him some extra age and character he needs in the second movie, but otherwise they wouldn't fit to his eyeless look. Borma doesn't have eyebrows, either.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do eyebrows give you age? Wrinkles maybe. Grey hair. Young peeps dont not have eybrows.
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Lightice



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:
How do eyebrows give you age?


Old men often have more noticeable eyebrows than young. In animation, they're extra lines on the face, adding character and in some cases, also age. At least IMO, they make him appear older. That is ofcourse a subjective opinion - perhaps they mention it also in the commentary, but don't take my word on it, it's been awhile since I listened to them.
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alfonso2501



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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Batou Reply with quote

Tonks_kittygoth wrote:
3. Is he supposed to be Japanese, cause he sure doenst look it. Not that there are not of course many sorts of Japanese men's body type, but he looks more Eastern European/Russian/American.

4. Was he in the Japanese rangers or another countries, (see q 3)

I’m almost positive that Batou is from the US! In episode 10 of 1st season, the “Jungle something-or-another” episode, section 9 was asked to help catch a former US army special ops solder gone on a killing spree. Batou revealed that he had served with this solder in some sort of Central American war before joining section 9.
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