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External memory project
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AI



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:22 am    Post subject: External memory project Reply with quote

If you had an external memory, what would you put in it?
Here are some of the authors I would consider:

J.D. Salinger
Frederic Jameson
Sigmund Freuid
Carl Marx
Richard Dawkins

And of course anything related to Ghost in the shell

By the way I am dead serious about collecting Ghost in the Shell related texts and putting them in some kind of searchable format
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Saito



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone could develop a way of knowing a book cover-to-cover without having to read it I doubt I would be able to stop myself putting everything into it that was ever written...

If you could have the device read it to your brain automatically without the limitations of dyslexia and suchlike (kinda like a mental audiobook) then I would be all up for that too.
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marto_motoko



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saito wrote:
If someone could develop a way of knowing a book cover-to-cover without having to read it I doubt I would be able to stop myself putting everything into it that was ever written...

If you could have the device read it to your brain automatically without the limitations of dyslexia and suchlike (kinda like a mental audiobook) then I would be all up for that too.


See, I would prefer if there was limit to it, but still something we'd be able to enter.

I honestly cannot say, since I'm not exactly sure. There's gorgeous books suck as Simulacra and Simulation which would be wonderful additions, but I know there's certain levels of misunderstanding that if the external memory granted me with, I'd love to actually always have it on hand.

mm
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Saito



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Location: The chopper you never saw, behind the gun you never heard, about to fire the shot you never expected

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marto_motoko wrote:

There's gorgeous books suck as Simulacra and Simulation which would be wonderful additions


Jean Baudrillard.... mmmmmmmm

Yeh I think a limit would not only be desirable but also a practical constraint on size and function at least to start with. There's bound to be some megalomaniac nutter that builds a massive one and then connects his cyber brain to it though... I feel a fanfic coming on Wink
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Elmo_Redux



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would fill it with porn. Smile

I have all the books I like in hardcopy and when I want any particular piece of information I enjoy researching it - a big external memory device I could plug into would be a wholly negative thing for me.
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Saito



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I agree with you there. I rather enjoy rooting around for information sometimes. Sometimes I can't be bothered though, if I'm tired or need it ASAP, and I think those times I'd find it handy.

There seems to be some confusion about the GiTS idea f external memory, if it's just for information (like we use computers for today) or wether it's able to store thoughts and memories from the brain also...

I think you'd have to be selective about what you kept in it. For one it could fall into the wrong hands. For another it may make you complacent, meaning its loss or failure could land you in the crap somewhat.
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marto_motoko



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess there would be a difference. If you recall, even a tachikoma had a preference to read rather than to just "absorb" the information. I guess the difference in how you perceive it? Perhaps even the pace of it all?

mm
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Saito



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any machine or organism has a limit to it's cognitive processing abilities. The ability to take in information slowly and process it during the input is highly preferable to a 'braindump' scenario.

Even machines can't process a huge block of data all at once. I would perceive that an AI has to carefully distribute it's available cognitive abilities to various tasks, just like a human mind so it's feasible that even a highly complex AI like the Tachikoma would prefer to read in information in a serial form. Of course their idea of 'reading' it would be a lot faster than the human form, but essentially the same kind of process.
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GhostLine



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like what they did in the Matrix...install various fighting techniques and helicopter operating manuals.
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Saito



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think the idea of the data disks in the Matrix was that they loaded the data a t the absolute limit of the operatives cognitive speed so they got kind of a 'data rush' out of it. It's not quite the same though, however, as the abilities are only loaded into your RSI (residual self image) in the Matrix, which is essentially a self embedded computer program. As such the operatives brain isn't required to 'learn' all the information, in stead it relies on the operative in the Matrix being free of mind enough to just assume the abilities are there, at which point they are activated. That was my take on the theory anyway, based on what I saw in the films and what I've read around the subject.

The whole idea is that the RSI is a Simulacra of the operatives real mind and body, which the real person manipulates from within their own mind. The two are intrinsically linked by the base functions of the human mind, however, so the destruction of a person's RSI effectively kills them, unless they are strong enough of mind to overcome the program and avoid being fooled into the idea of being dead (as Neo did in the first film, and the third one... eventually). More Jean Baudrillard Smile

While this example is an interesting one I am unsure how much relationship it has to a real mind or a person's 'Ghost' in GitS.
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Proxy



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saito wrote:
as the abilities are only loaded into your RSI (residual self image) in the Matrix, which is essentially a self embedded computer program. As such the operatives brain isn't required to 'learn' all the information, in stead it relies on the operative in the Matrix being free of mind enough to just assume the abilities are there, at which point they are activated.


Wouldnt this be the same as doing something in the real world and not thinking about it? Mmm... an example for me would be i guess that i went back to this MUD i played back when i was like 14 or something which would be like 7 years ago and its based on commands. I didnt remember every single command and all but i was able to move around and do things that normal new players would have to read on and learn, and even eventually remember the commands i didnt. Anyway, what im getting at is that if you learned something in the Matrix that way and did it just by "doing" it then wouldnt it be something you learned and could maybe take back to the real world? This excludes anything that your body couldnt physically do though, obviously. So it seems like what they did in the Matrix would be an effective way to actually learn stuff if it was at all possible. It seems like i just went on repeating myself in this post lol.

Edit: Also, after reading what i quoted again, it seems like you might mean that the computer loads the program for the user kind of like running a a program on a disc. The computer doesnt need to install it and can run the program as long as the disc is installed but i dont think thats what they did in the Matrix. It seemed to me that they actually put it in the persons brain.
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p2501



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would store all sorts of instructional books. Like foreign language, math, programming, all that stuff.
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stand-al0ne



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goodbye college in that case...not that I studied too much during that time anyway Surprised
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Freitag



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stand-al0ne wrote:
goodbye college in that case...not that I studied too much during that time anyway Surprised


I think college would change rather than go away.

I have a feeling that cramming your head full of facts might be a nearly medical procedure that would have to be done under careful and controlled circumstances.

I think the processing of that info may not be as fast as it was shown in Matrix.

Step 1. Surgery to install connections (assuming that all storage is actually the persons natural brain)

Step 2. Several sessions to determine the individuals load parameters and how much pre-processing needs to take place. Not everyone is born with a photographic memory and this process may need to set up the data differently for different folks.

In Matrix, both of those were done long before Neo met the Nebuchadnezzar crew.

Step 3. (repeat for each data set to load) Go to your learning sessions.

Step 4. Practical work. Just as Neo had to prove he know Kung Foo, and just like after a teacher shows you how to do some task, you have to demonstrate you know how to use it. Also, since you're not loading every single possible usage pattern, demonstrating adaptability with the knowledge may apply (or at least determine your final grade in each class)

This would be a huge boon for folks with ADD or lack of discipline.

Anyone recall Dark City? The doctor (Keifer Sutherland) interjected himself into the main characters memory as a teacher so that they guy (forgot his name) had memories of learning things.

An episode of Torchwood had a guy that could manipulate memories and there was a suggestion that there could be side-effects that might damage your real memories if it was not done carefully.

I'd be in on it for sure though!
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stand-al0ne



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also which ways could you "upload" that information? Visually? audio?

The very act of knowing where to hardwire the brain for information storage is vague at best, which leads me to ask about visual or audio techniques. And how would one know which way to "uload" the information from a computer devise to the person?

Brainwashing techniques seem like people have determined thats the most effective way of "uploading" information at this point...

But then again, technology is on the rise Smile
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