Kenji Kamiyama used Ocean's Eleven in the third episode of SAC 2nd GIG called Cash Eye.
There are quite a number of similarities between the manga books and the TV series and also the second film, you will find that scenes are similar, lines of dialogue are the same.
stand alone complex: has any one notisted the similaritys
Moderator: sonic
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Tonks_kittygoth
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:57 am
- Location: The dark dark woods where the kitten monsters live....or happy la la land, my summer home.
Yep, Im a yank too, thats why I said "lots of" not just "americans", or "all americans", or even "the majority of." However, I am a grad student too, and I get s**t for being an intelectual liberal myself on a constant basis.
Any amont of media watching and you will hear lots of grumbling about the intelectual east coasters, or the stuck up inteligensia and so on. I have noticed that these are often the same people that get crabby about France too, so I thought perhaps there was a conection.
Any amont of media watching and you will hear lots of grumbling about the intelectual east coasters, or the stuck up inteligensia and so on. I have noticed that these are often the same people that get crabby about France too, so I thought perhaps there was a conection.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man.
Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as
one wants to live and not die, so do other
creatures." - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as
one wants to live and not die, so do other
creatures." - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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AlphonseVanWorden
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:10 am
Regarding the whole French-American thing (to stray off-topic again):
I'll recommend Jean-Phillipe Mathy's French Resistance: The French-American Culture Wars to anyone interested in the matter. Mathy's a comparative literature professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana. His book provides readers with a pretty comprehensive and very readable analysis of how French and Americans view things differently and gives a good historical overview of the differences. (It's also useful if you're interested in history, politics, literature, literary theory, and/or philosophy.) Mathy doesn't really take one side or the other; he's more interested in how certain misconceptions (or different presuppositions) came about, how they function, and what they mean in terms of culture.
It might be worthwhile to look at Anti-Americanism, edited by Andrew and Kristin Ross; Bringing the Empire Back Home: France in the Global Age, written by Herman Lebovics; and Benedict Anderson's review of/essay on those two books in the December/January 2005 issue of Bookforum.
There's a lot of history that feeds into both sides of the French/American divide. The debate's not easily reducible to terms of what one side did for another at a given point- or to simple anti-intellectualism on the part of some U.S. citizens.
And for what it's worth, France has a history rich in imperialism, genocide, anti-immigrant sentiment, and political manipulation of former colonies. One need only think of Algeria... Bur like most nations, France and the French people have a lot of good things that can be said for them, too.
Part of me winces when I see a poster use the term "redneck", and another part of me cringes when I see someone claiming not to "enjoy French culture." And largely, my wincing and cringing has to do with what base of the pillar mentioned: sweeping statements.
(I'm assuming that in this context "redneck" signifies something like "a person who doesn't agree with my politics." At least, I hope that's what it means. I'd hate to think it has something to do with educational background or social status. As someone who's lived in the American South for a long time, I'm acutely aware that people use the term "redneck" in a pejorative sense, that the word's history is negative-- although it's sometimes used ironically by those who are given the label by others-- and that the word has some pretty unfortunate class-based and education-based associations. And I've met some nice folks who could probably be classified as rednecks. Not sure I'd use that term to describe them, though... Seems a trifle condescending to them as people, as individuals.
(Now, if the people in question call themselves rednecks, that's another story- and I've met some who do, and seem darned proud of their redneck identity. And some of those aren't bad folks, either. And they serve a mean barbecue... Man, I'm getting hungry.
(And to those who aren't fond of French culture, I have to ask: Which part of French culture? A "culture" covers a lot of things- intellectual, social, culinary, aesthetic, working-class, economic. And heaven forbid you've never tried French cuisine or had a decent French wine... or, as I like to call it, freedom wine, as it liberates me from so many unfortunate thoughts. Of course, if you've sworn off alcoholic beverages or you're under the legal age, I can understand not sampling the wine... but the food... so yummy... )
Some (but certainly not all) of the posts on this thread seem terribly...general, off-topic, and divisive at times. And I think divisive-- and general or broad-- language serves the purposes of any number of people on both ends of the political spectrum. I wouldn't have commented at all, but I found myself troubled by some of the posts.
This isn't an attack on anyone here, just an observation/reaction to the posts.
I agree with base of the pillar about general statements being problematic, but I don't think that this implies anything like hypocrisy on the part of someone making a general statement. I think we sometimes don't consider the words we use, the concepts those words imply.
Of course, I've strayed off-topic yet again, so I'll shut up (or perform the virtual equivalent of "shutting up") and let the dialogue continue.
Angry private messages addressed to me are, of course, welcomed by yours truly. I don't think I'll post anything further on this thread... till we get back to similarities and differences between the manga and the show.
I'm off to get something to eat.
I'll recommend Jean-Phillipe Mathy's French Resistance: The French-American Culture Wars to anyone interested in the matter. Mathy's a comparative literature professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana. His book provides readers with a pretty comprehensive and very readable analysis of how French and Americans view things differently and gives a good historical overview of the differences. (It's also useful if you're interested in history, politics, literature, literary theory, and/or philosophy.) Mathy doesn't really take one side or the other; he's more interested in how certain misconceptions (or different presuppositions) came about, how they function, and what they mean in terms of culture.
It might be worthwhile to look at Anti-Americanism, edited by Andrew and Kristin Ross; Bringing the Empire Back Home: France in the Global Age, written by Herman Lebovics; and Benedict Anderson's review of/essay on those two books in the December/January 2005 issue of Bookforum.
There's a lot of history that feeds into both sides of the French/American divide. The debate's not easily reducible to terms of what one side did for another at a given point- or to simple anti-intellectualism on the part of some U.S. citizens.
And for what it's worth, France has a history rich in imperialism, genocide, anti-immigrant sentiment, and political manipulation of former colonies. One need only think of Algeria... Bur like most nations, France and the French people have a lot of good things that can be said for them, too.
Part of me winces when I see a poster use the term "redneck", and another part of me cringes when I see someone claiming not to "enjoy French culture." And largely, my wincing and cringing has to do with what base of the pillar mentioned: sweeping statements.
(I'm assuming that in this context "redneck" signifies something like "a person who doesn't agree with my politics." At least, I hope that's what it means. I'd hate to think it has something to do with educational background or social status. As someone who's lived in the American South for a long time, I'm acutely aware that people use the term "redneck" in a pejorative sense, that the word's history is negative-- although it's sometimes used ironically by those who are given the label by others-- and that the word has some pretty unfortunate class-based and education-based associations. And I've met some nice folks who could probably be classified as rednecks. Not sure I'd use that term to describe them, though... Seems a trifle condescending to them as people, as individuals.
(Now, if the people in question call themselves rednecks, that's another story- and I've met some who do, and seem darned proud of their redneck identity. And some of those aren't bad folks, either. And they serve a mean barbecue... Man, I'm getting hungry.
(And to those who aren't fond of French culture, I have to ask: Which part of French culture? A "culture" covers a lot of things- intellectual, social, culinary, aesthetic, working-class, economic. And heaven forbid you've never tried French cuisine or had a decent French wine... or, as I like to call it, freedom wine, as it liberates me from so many unfortunate thoughts. Of course, if you've sworn off alcoholic beverages or you're under the legal age, I can understand not sampling the wine... but the food... so yummy...
)Some (but certainly not all) of the posts on this thread seem terribly...general, off-topic, and divisive at times. And I think divisive-- and general or broad-- language serves the purposes of any number of people on both ends of the political spectrum. I wouldn't have commented at all, but I found myself troubled by some of the posts.
This isn't an attack on anyone here, just an observation/reaction to the posts.
I agree with base of the pillar about general statements being problematic, but I don't think that this implies anything like hypocrisy on the part of someone making a general statement. I think we sometimes don't consider the words we use, the concepts those words imply.
Of course, I've strayed off-topic yet again, so I'll shut up (or perform the virtual equivalent of "shutting up") and let the dialogue continue.
Angry private messages addressed to me are, of course, welcomed by yours truly. I don't think I'll post anything further on this thread... till we get back to similarities and differences between the manga and the show.
I'm off to get something to eat.
Such is the soul in the body: this world is like her little turf of grass, and the heaven o'er our heads, like her looking-glass, only gives us a miserable knowledge of the small compass of our prison. - Bosola, in John Webster's The Duchess of Malfi
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Tonks_kittygoth
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:57 am
- Location: The dark dark woods where the kitten monsters live....or happy la la land, my summer home.
Sorry Ghost, one last word (from me) on the kettle of frenchworms 
I never thought of the "r" word as being a socio economic thing...
I surely know its not a southern thing, as many people up north would either call others or themselves that.
Like metalheads/punks/gansta's sort of thing.
More of an attitude sort of thing. Like "He's one of those opera liken types."
And "Oh my cousin is so into nascar."
I have phd friends that love "redneck" culture, hate reading, love cars/hunting/bluecoller comedy tour and hate/ dislike intensly what they consider snoby, but they are smart as heck, and way richer than me.
Apparenly I live on Mars...since my experiances seem to differ a lot from everone on heres... eh Mars is nice.
meep.I think we sometimes don't consider the words we use, the concepts those words imply.
I never thought of the "r" word as being a socio economic thing...
I surely know its not a southern thing, as many people up north would either call others or themselves that.
Like metalheads/punks/gansta's sort of thing.
More of an attitude sort of thing. Like "He's one of those opera liken types."
And "Oh my cousin is so into nascar."
I have phd friends that love "redneck" culture, hate reading, love cars/hunting/bluecoller comedy tour and hate/ dislike intensly what they consider snoby, but they are smart as heck, and way richer than me.
Apparenly I live on Mars...since my experiances seem to differ a lot from everone on heres... eh Mars is nice.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man.
Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as
one wants to live and not die, so do other
creatures." - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as
one wants to live and not die, so do other
creatures." - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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AlphonseVanWorden
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:10 am
If I'm not mistaken, the word "redneck"- as used in the U.S.- was a derogatory term for poor white Appalachians and was used post-Reconstruction as an insulting term for uneducated Southerners, usually sharecroppers. (I believe the word refers to the specific sunburn pattern that sharecroppers and other workers get from prolonged exposure to daylight.) The word spread to the North by way of economic and political usage, including South-bashing speeches and labor union-busting campaigns, for what that's worth. It later took on a broader meaning signifying uneducated and/or working-class whites, especially but not always from rural areas, and their attitudes- hence the current (and much looser) usage of the word.I surely know its not a southern thing, as many people up north would either call others or themselves that.
(One can think of other pejorative terms whose meanings are context-specific... but when used, those words tick off a lot of folks. Somehow, the "redneck" term has become acceptable, despite its wince-inducing history and what the word means to some Southerners. It's one thing for someone from that background to use the word... It's another when someone else uses it. For some people who are called rednecks by other Southerners or by Northerners, that seems to be the case. Sorta like using the term "Okie" back in Dust Bowl days; it was kind-of synonymous with "hick"...)
A lot of the working-class or poor rural people whose culture gave rise to "redneck" fashion, attitudes, and entertainment didn't have- and don't have- much choice in the matter of their lifestyles. And those who do have a choice are confronted with letting traditions change or die... never very pleasant options. So the situation's a little different from the ones faced by other subcultures you mentioned.
I believe I said that I didn't think you were using the term with the "actual" meaning in mind. I was implying that some people might find the term offensive, particularly rural and low-income or working-class folks.
And I was basing that on reactions I've seen in my own life... from people who are aware of the term's history, and not by choice.
I have phd friends that love "redneck" culture, hate reading, love cars/hunting/bluecoller comedy tour and hate/ dislike intensly what they consider snoby, but they are smart as heck, and way richer than me.
Not sure that loving a culture is the same as being of or from that culture...
I believe what you're describing's an example of the so-called "postmodern redneck" phenomenon (which isn't unlike the "urban cowboy" thing that crops up from time to time- and when we consider both phenomena as consumer-driven and marketed as either entertainment or as reactions or "authentic" alternatives to other modes or fashions in contemporary life, this is pretty much a socio-economic thing- even if the consumer is being ironic, it doesn't put an end to the person's status as consumer).
I don't know if not liking reading but being fond of hunting and cars are exclusively redneck things. (I imagine there could be "rednecks" of whatever nationality or ethnicity, too, if that's the case. Not sure those folks'd appreciate the appellation, though...)
And does enjoying Jeff Foxworthy et. al. (who're selling a certain "image" of rural and/or working-class culture, albeit one that many rural and urban, Northern and Southern people enjoy) signify anything beyond cultural commodification and consumption?
I mentioned that the term is used ironically- and not only by poor Southerners or inhabitants of rural areas. Strictly speaking, your friends wouldn't be rednecks... they'd simply be embracing cultural signifiers, the same way that any subculture reacting to the contemporary world does.
I've known a rich fellow who collected velvet Elvis tapestries and various examples of Presley kitsch. Didn't signify anything, other than his well-nigh total obsession with Elvis and the King's rock-and-roll 'tude.
This is yet again off-topic... I'll be glad to take up the matter in Private Messages.
I'm shutting up again. Honest.
Isn't the atmosphere a bit thin? Not sure how well the wine would keep... so I'll stick with this planet, until Mars is terraformed.Apparenly I live on Mars...since my experiances seem to differ a lot from everone on heres... eh Mars is nice.
Such is the soul in the body: this world is like her little turf of grass, and the heaven o'er our heads, like her looking-glass, only gives us a miserable knowledge of the small compass of our prison. - Bosola, in John Webster's The Duchess of Malfi