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base of the pillar
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Post by base of the pillar »

I'm sorry when I first read your post it sounded like you were putting down the American school system. All I was trying to say was that smart, well rounded people can some out of those kind of situations rather then the ideal you represented.

Oh I also should ammend what I said earlier. Religion wasn't necessarilly taboo in our school. Its just that I grew up in a heavily Bible belt area. Now with that said. My topic for my English class's 10 page research paper was God and how a number of religions view him, and while I wasn't taught any of the information in the paper I thought it was pretty thourough. So maybe I don't need to be taught about religion to learn about them. I just have to have some curiosity and a willingness to learn.
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
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Elmo
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Post by Elmo »

marto_motoko wrote:There was this extraordinarily nice fellow with a Bateau avatar that used to be a regular, but eventually completely died out.
me? please be aware that if you say yes I'll be upset you didn't remember my name and if you say no I'll be upset you didn't miss me at all. either way I'm sulking. :P

I want ragathol to come back.. :(
Joseph Cambell wrote:Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.
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douyang
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Post by douyang »

Well I must say that I think that learning about religion -any religion, although the more kinds the better- is very important. It should be taught in school just like anything else that greatly affects the world and humans in general. It only affects loads of events in history... Nothing major or anything! Think of it as part of cultural studies... Learning about religion is just part of learning about the way other cultures work or our own psychology- it is not the same as being taught to actually be religious. Non-religious schools tend to view it as some scary disease that has to be cut out with a scalpel before it spreads and infects the masses, rather than something which -like it or not- plays an important part in most people's lives and should therefore be analysed and studied.
I personally do not trust a religious institution, especially the Catholic church, with its bloody history of inquisitions, crusades, witch trials, and all around bigotry and tyranny to not try to force their religion on students by teaching it as unquestionable truth the same way they teach math and science. Maybe not all Catholic schools are equally bent on proselytization, but I simply know that at least part of the reason they were founded was to push if not force their religion on vulnerable young minds. Otherwise why would a school be called "Catholic"? Why would a religion be associated with education? Why would they require students to take part in religious worship or practices (although this is decreasing today)?

There are plenty of good reasons why religion is not taught as a subject in public institutions. First of all, there will always be the risk of bias, propaganda, or overt or hidden proselytization, due to the personal beliefs of the teacher, the beliefs of the majority of the community, or the simple fact that it is simply not possible to give every religion that exists, or ever has existed, equal time and a fair discussion, and to avoid at least indeliberately promoting some over others. (For that matter, would a Catholic or other religious school teach atheism or agnosticism as well as religion?) Second of all, they run the risk of creating religious conflict between students, teachers, government, and parents over which religions are taught and how, in no small part due to the multitude of religious beliefs that proliferate. Finally, the time could be better used to teach the sciences, civics, and critical thinking, which at least in the American educational system are poor or nonexistent. If anything on anyone's religion is taught at all, it can easily be covered in a history class discussing its effects in historical or social context. If you want to learn about a religion, you can just chat with people who share it, look it up in the library, etc. , just like you would any other topic not covered by school curriculum.

By the way, did your school ever teach you about evolution?
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douyang
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Post by douyang »

They exist because Catholic families want their children to go to Catholic schools. The children are typically already Catholic. Mum or dad sang "Away in a manger" as a lullaby to send them off to sleep when they were babies, and they were taught to say bedtime prayers for grandma, grandpa and the family dog ever since they were able to speak. They already go to church and they already know who Jesus is. Now they can go to school, primarily to learn important stuff like maths, science and english; but also to take part in the school nativity once a year and play and angel or a shepherd at Christmas. They open it up to other kids who aren't Catholic so that they can learn from each other and take part and have fun... And a religion was associated with education because... well... duh. In Europe the first scholars and people who could write were scribes of scripture and so forth. Why? Because that's where the most demand for such skills came from. I mean, the old world was run by monastries and Kings who believed they ruled on behalf of God. It only makes sense that religion has age old ties to education. And before that, primitive societies that devoted their whole lives' efforts to worshipping their gods, with all their stories and art. Then, because the church provided social welfare before there was such thing as a welfare state, giving alms to the poor and so forth; it was only natural that a source of free eduction to the needy and the poor became through the church. It was the centre of the community in days past, and the community wanted their kids looked after. Hence a longstanding tradition of free schools. Hence why half of the schools in England, and why most of the top schools in England, are Catholic or Church of England. I guess governments don't care about their children as much as what are -in effect- charitable organisations do. And nobody - particularly me- is going to sniff at a fantastic free education where as a delightful bonus you get taught all this happy stuff about how people ought to care for each other a raise money for Africa, etc.
First of all, I apologize if I was prejudgemental about your school. It's just that my experience and knowledge of religion in my own country has lead me to see it as a threat more than anything else, especially to any type of knowledge or education that contradicts its teachings. (Looking at the whackos who claim Bush is appointed by god and that natural disasters and acts of terror are punishment from aforementioned diety for not being slaves to its bigoted and tyrannical will, you can see why.)

Your explanation of why religion is tied into education seems plausible enough. The one thing I take major issue with is the idea of a "Catholic" child. If you've ever read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion", he brings up the very important point that there is no such thing as a "Catholic" child or "Muslim" child, anymore than there is a "Marxist" child or "Republican" child, since children are simply too young to know where they stand on such issues, and it is fundamentally wrong for parents to force their religious beliefs on children who are primed to automatically believe whatever their parents or other adults tell them. I personally believe that people should be allowed to be free from religious indoctrination until the age of 18 or so, where they can examine the claims for themselves and decide as informed adults free from the possible coercion of others.
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base of the pillar
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Post by base of the pillar »

I don't know I think your giving some adults to much credit. I've known many 18 year olds who would believe there was a flying spaghetti monster if someone told them.
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
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douyang
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Post by douyang »

Then we're all f****d, aren't we? :lol:

It would explain a lot. :(
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base of the pillar
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Post by base of the pillar »

It already does.
"And if we spirits have offended think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered heree while these visions did appear."--A Midsummer Night's Dream

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
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Elmo
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Post by Elmo »

There isn't a flying spagetti monster? :shock:
Joseph Cambell wrote:Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.
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