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About Batou and The Major

 
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SamusTheHunter



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: About Batou and The Major Reply with quote

So this I kinda just wanted to focus on Batou and Motoko. Whether it be as friends or romantically. I wonder what you think.

I'm leaning towards romantically. Even the voice actors said in the interview for SSS that they had a serious thing for eachother.

Comments?
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GhostLine



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: "the net is vast and infinite..."

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe that they share some affection towards each other but something I doubt will ever be consummated on any level. I see Batou as the anchor to Motoko's consideration to remain and interact on a physical plane. She is way too free-spirited to ever belong to anyone...yet I think Batou's choice to try not to be possessive is what keeps her around.
Section 9 is a major problem too. They are so cyberized and indentured to the government...that their memories are practically secret property...and if they ever checked out...there wouldn't be much left of them after the government reclaimed all property. Which is why Motoko goes AWOL like she does...and is at the cusp of disappearing into the electronic universe. And since she had interacted so much with the expanded consciousness provided within the net...a relationship with Batou probably pales in comparison..unless he chose to free himself of his physical bonds as well.
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SamusTheHunter



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is entirely true. It would be difficult as well as borderline impossible for their real feelings to be put outward but truthfully, I think Batou maybe harbors more of the attachment than she does. However, I think she gains a large portion of attachment to him before/during/after SSS.

I do wonder what their relationship would be like. It for certain wouldn't be very..."affectionate." I don't think there would be much public display of affection either. THere would be a lot of compassion in an almost dark way i think
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GhostLine



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, if they ever did become "an item" per se, I doubt it would be very functional. I think Batou would have more conventional expectations...and expect to develop certain traditions and attachments...just as he fawns and spoils the tachikomas Tachi (in SAC) or his dog Gabu (Innocence). I doubt Motoko would be good for him with her high degree of independence.

He would probably drive her crazy with trying to tie her down...and she would probably drive him crazy by disappearing days at a time.
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SamusTheHunter



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think that Motoko would drive him insane with disappearing or secluding herself. She would probably realize that and come back to him sooner rather than later but she would still do it.

Batou..well he might be a bit pestering about having a "stereotypical" relationship and wanting to be intimate (not in a sexual way) but be near her/hold her. And that might cramp her style but I think he has the sense and knowledge, knowing her better than anyone else, to hold it back and instead talk about the things he wants in a relationship rather than act upon it.

I do think they are good for each other basing the obvious connection they have and value of respect they regard for each other. Batou holds the whole "love" part of the relationship. (While respect and understanding is a huge part of love, two things they have for each other, I mean that Batou has the affectionate part of the relationship while Motoko. Is lacking in that sense) They both have attachment though.
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Freitag



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostLine wrote:
I agree, if they ever did become "an item" per se, I doubt it would be very functional.


They put the 'fun' in dysFUNctional!!!!


Hey, someone had to say it,
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SamusTheHunter



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha...that was lame lol
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stand-al0ne



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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Location: Chicago-then ATL-**NOW Orlando!! :)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Major would feel like Batou doesn't "complete" her or that she would be settling. But I truly believe she does have a longing for meeting a special someone, and I believe she feels she just has not crossed paths with her ideological "soul mate". I also feel thats partially why she feels so compelled to surf the net. I believe love drives her, or rather wanting to be loved. I think this is supported on some levels from when she admits she is there for section 9, but who is there for her. I dont think she wants this need filled in the typical relationship mannor, maybe? , but rather where is her shoulder to lean on. I feel it has developed and fueled her independence over time to the point where it has made her an excellent leader and given her great drive...but I think those are just symptoms and/or side effects of feeling alone for such a great time. And that I'm sure has to weigh in on her consciousness when the access to the net should put people closer together than ever, so there is irony mixed in as well.

I believe she felt like she had the best chance of finding someone who completed her when she shared that moment with Kuze under the rubble in 2nd Gig. It had to have left a lasting scar on her after he died wondering if he was the one for her. Im sure it also prompted her to search the web in hopes of finding his ghost on there somewhere.

But I believe her and Batou are a good match - In some ways I think the Major short sells Batou and doesnt feel he is a "deep" or "free spirited" as she perceives him. I also think she takes him for granted.
They would probably settle down together later in life...maybe...
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Freitag



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've known people that were just restless. They couldn't see the good in just being. Everyone could see they were happy, but they just had to move on. Eventually those that were close to them had to back off and protect themselves from the emotional damage those people were doing.

Kinda sad really.
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Damnd of Hell



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see it more like an extreme comarad thing. Some physical attatchment is merging, but, they both know what happens in military attatchments. They don't work at all.
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Zidore



Joined: 14 Feb 2011
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Location: India

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know about the nightingale syndrome, right?
I feel this situation (the major and batou) is kinda like that.
See the major has 'saved' batou by defining his purpose.
In a world where you can't judge between real or not, goals really define the reason for existence.
thus batou feels compelled to have a gratuitous emotion, this kinda makes him feel it's a romantic thing, geddit?
Atleast that's what I think...
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GhostLine



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: "the net is vast and infinite..."

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, Zidore...in psychological terms, it's called transference. It's typically applied to cases where a professional (counselor, therapist, nurse, doctor, social worker) gets emotionally enmeshed with the patient/client.

I can totally see Batou feeling that he owes a lot to Motoko...and that stirring up feelings of first, loyalty...but then later, desire for romantic attachment. I haven't yet seen ARISE beyond the first episode, so it will be interesting to see how their relationship is interpreted.
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Freitag



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another angle to look at here. Since both the Major and Batou have synthetic bodies they don't have all those hormones running around that are commanding them to "get busy" like all us meat sacks.
Further, the Major was cyberized at such a young age that she's almost a Joan of Arc character (heroic virgin) rather than a "normal" person. (In 2nd Gig, Gouda exploits this very characteristic of her nature.) And virgins (particularly children/never exposed to hormones?) have very different concepts of relationships than do adults.


What would a relationship be like, having full cognitive ability and zero behavior inducing hormones?
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moreorless



Joined: 21 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freitag wrote:
There's another angle to look at here. Since both the Major and Batou have synthetic bodies they don't have all those hormones running around that are commanding them to "get busy" like all us meat sacks.
Further, the Major was cyberized at such a young age that she's almost a Joan of Arc character (heroic virgin) rather than a "normal" person. (In 2nd Gig, Gouda exploits this very characteristic of her nature.) And virgins (particularly children/never exposed to hormones?) have very different concepts of relationships than do adults.

What would a relationship be like, having full cognitive ability and zero behavior inducing hormones?


Most hormone production happens in the brain of course which they still have but how that might be effected by a synthetic body at a young age is I spose questionable.

I would say probably the most overt hints at romance are in Oshii's films. Personally I think a lot of the drama in the original is down to showing his affections for her that she's aware of but feels unable to return as she loses her attachment to the human condition.

Its often criticized as just exploitive but I would argue a lot of the reason for the nude thermoptics was to highlight this. It gives the major enough of a realistic body to make it sexualised still(you could argue that in itself would make sense for section 6 to give her such a body to try and keep her grounded) but have her behaving in a way that shows dissociation from it being totally unconcerned with nudity. I think its telling that Batou covers her up after the fight with the ghost hacked criminal because he still wants to see her as more human who would care about that and she accepts it for his sake.
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