in the shell Forum Index in the shell
Discussions about the many incarnations of Ghost in the Shell, philosophy and more!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

External memory project
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    in the shell Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Freitag



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 583
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think of brainwashing as a pretty nasty hack that temporarily suppresses the native thoughts. The fact that you can be deprogrammed from being in a cult means that brainwashing is not a lasting change.

I think that an external memory device has to function (or at least interface) identically with the internal one and either coexist with it or totally replace it.

The act of "remembering" needs to work whether the memory is external or internal.

Perhaps a search engine attached to the ext4erenal device could let you "remember" things that you never even knew before.

I'm sure that some external memories would get transferred to internal memory just because of how things work - you may remember the last time you thought about the topic etc...

And maybe if memory isn't really clear enough the recall machinery could simply replay the audio so you can re-experience it. (This might be why Batou was so upset that the major was diving while driving in Chat Chat Chat - if the sights and sounds of the virtual world overlay the inputs of the real world too well)

Internal memory (or at least physically attached - could they make a place for some storage in your body?) would be important - just think of all the dropped calls or power outages that have shut down your access to external technology. It would suck to forget how to fly a plane just because in the in-air wifi was shut down during an emergency.

As for how? I'd go for direct wiring. Crack that egg open and jam some wires in there. Carefully of course.
_________________
People tend to look at you a little strangely when they know you stuff voodoo dolls full of Ex-Lax.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stand-al0ne



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 96
Location: Chicago-then ATL-**NOW Orlando!! :)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing that made me wonder about the chat chat chat episode was how she stayed so involved to the forum discussion while driving?

Are cyber brains better able to compartmentalize tasks and work them simultaneously?

We as natural humans can drive and talk at the same of, of course, but I doubt we could be as active as she was in a round-table discussion while driving (and while not listening to Batou ,lol)

This theme is also taken to an extreme in SSS, when the major is controlling the bodies of the children at her safe-house. When one glitches and falls to the floor,she makes the comment that controlling two bodies at the same time is apparently her limit.

I just thought that whole concept was very interesting...
_________________
"Fortune Favors the Brave"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cong06



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stand-al0ne wrote:
goodbye college in that case...not that I studied too much during that time anyway Surprised

I can't say I learned much in college either.
However, I did learn how to learn, which is many ways is much more valuable.

That being said, I'm very skeptical about the hard drive scenario. Lets assume that a hard drive to brain interface is easily constructible.
Alot of things would still have to be taught, because we have to know how to do them inside our own bodies (kung fu, for example).

And... say we copy a whole book onto our hard drive brain. How would we find it? Would we have a "hard drive to brain" operating system so we can search for it, so that the contents of the hard drive would be properly indexed?

Anyway. I think it would be super cool, but I'm rather queasy when it comes to these things, so I guess I'd never manage when it comes to getting one surgically attached.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stand-al0ne



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 96
Location: Chicago-then ATL-**NOW Orlando!! :)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cong06 wrote:
stand-al0ne wrote:
goodbye college in that case...not that I studied too much during that time anyway Surprised

I can't say I learned much in college either.
However, I did learn how to learn, which is many ways is much more valuable.

That being said, I'm very skeptical about the hard drive scenario. Lets assume that a hard drive to brain interface is easily constructible.
Alot of things would still have to be taught, because we have to know how to do them inside our own bodies (kung fu, for example).

And... say we copy a whole book onto our hard drive brain. How would we find it? Would we have a "hard drive to brain" operating system so we can search for it, so that the contents of the hard drive would be properly indexed?

Anyway. I think it would be super cool, but I'm rather queasy when it comes to these things, so I guess I'd never manage when it comes to getting one surgically attached.



Same here. While cool to think about, I would have no interest in having a man-made hard drive in between my ears...

The other thing you have to wonder is how "personality" develops with people with cyberbrains. I mean, emotions stem from the brain, so when the is removed, then what creates the personality of GiTS people?
I suppose the creators vaguely answered that by saying people still have "ghosts" aka soul aka individual personality...the whole idea seems moot though given the fact that a never-been-used cyber brain would be pre-loaded with any kind of personality-generating function...and you cant create something from nothing. Laws of science hold this true.

And yes, I feel there would need to be some sort of operating system to access and locate stored information. I guess that would give a whole new meaning to Mac people and PC people, lolol
_________________
"Fortune Favors the Brave"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cong06



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stand-al0ne wrote:

The other thing you have to wonder is how "personality" develops with people with cyberbrains. I mean, emotions stem from the brain, so when the is removed, then what creates the personality of GiTS people?
I suppose the creators vaguely answered that by saying people still have "ghosts" aka soul aka individual personality...the whole idea seems moot though given the fact that a never-been-used cyber brain would be pre-loaded with any kind of personality-generating function...and you cant create something from nothing. Laws of science hold this true.


Well, I don't think a personality in a machine would be much different than a personality in a "regular" brain.

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apersonality wrote:
* the complex of all the attributes--behavioral, temperamental, emotional and mental--that characterize a unique individual; "their different reactions reflected their very different personalities"; "it is his nature to help others"
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
...
* A set of qualities that make a person (or thing) distinct from another; An assumed role or manner of behavior; A celebrity; Charisma, or qualities that make a person stand out from the crowd
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/personality
...
* The ways of thinking, feeling, and behaving characteristic of a particular individual.
http://www.routledge.com/textbooks/9780415485395/glossary.asp


I would have said that the Tachikomas each had a personality.

Without getting too far off topic, I also would have said that the people who were downloaded had personalities (I don't remember the episode so well, but I think they were the refugees in 2nd Gig?). I don't think that the hard drive/organic brain really has much to do with personalities. It's just that a personality doesn't evolve in a hard drive, at least in the traditional sense.

Basically my point is, that even our personalities could maybe be simplified to equations (we are, after all, just chemical reactions).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Freitag



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 583
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they had their brains removed - I think they had their brains installed in those metal skulls to make them "portable".

I recall one conversation the Major has on the way to get a new body (where the Laughing Man saved her from the assassin) in an elevator with her friend. She said that since she has not seen her own brain, she's not sure she still has one. Something about grey matter and all that. Sorta fuzzy on the details.

But I am sure they all still had meat in there somewhere.
_________________
People tend to look at you a little strangely when they know you stuff voodoo dolls full of Ex-Lax.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stand-al0ne



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 96
Location: Chicago-then ATL-**NOW Orlando!! :)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freitag wrote:
I don't think they had their brains removed - I think they had their brains installed in those metal skulls to make them "portable".

I recall one conversation the Major has on the way to get a new body (where the Laughing Man saved her from the assassin) in an elevator with her friend. She said that since she has not seen her own brain, she's not sure she still has one. Something about grey matter and all that. Sorta fuzzy on the details.

But I am sure they all still had meat in there somewhere.


I think I'm going to have to disagree with that theory and use the same episode and scene as my reference.

While we do not see the entire body-swapping process, what we do see never shows the brain-case being physically swapped. Rather, they show wiring from the old body connecting to the new body.

It is my theory that she is "downloaded" into the new brain case.

This is further questioned at the end of season 1 in the scene when the Major is boarding the airplane, is sniped , and has her head blown off. Apparently what saved her was her being fully backed up on an external hard drive somewhere. (right?,sorry if my details dont exactly line up)

But this may not be "par for the course" for everyone else, at least those who are not full cyborg. I believe if Togusa was to be shot in the head, he would die and no way or "downloading" a new one - not that we want that to happen to him anyway!

I feel for people like that, there are just implants at the base of their skull/neck region that allow them to have the features we see throughout the series.

Clarification of the entire "cyberization" process could help clear the air on this...
_________________
"Fortune Favors the Brave"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cong06



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stand-al0ne wrote:
This is further questioned at the end of season 1 in the scene when the Major is boarding the airplane, is sniped , and has her head blown off. Apparently what saved her was her being fully backed up on an external hard drive somewhere. (right?,sorry if my details dont exactly line up)


Well, I'm not really sure either, but I remember it being a "doll", or fake human.
I clearly need to re-watch the series though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stand-al0ne



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 96
Location: Chicago-then ATL-**NOW Orlando!! :)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cong06 wrote:
stand-al0ne wrote:
This is further questioned at the end of season 1 in the scene when the Major is boarding the airplane, is sniped , and has her head blown off. Apparently what saved her was her being fully backed up on an external hard drive somewhere. (right?,sorry if my details dont exactly line up)


Well, I'm not really sure either, but I remember it being a "doll", or fake human.
I clearly need to re-watch the series though.


Yeah, but the doll was who found Batou in the woods after the Tachikoma battle with the armed suits. When they were boarding the plane, she looks like plain ole Major to me. Still worth exploring.
_________________
"Fortune Favors the Brave"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    in the shell Forum Index -> General All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group