Looking for…
Moderator: sonic
Looking for…
I am looking for intellectual fiction and I am wondering if anyone has some good suggestions. I don’t really care about the medium so anime, movies, books, music whatever.
I have seen the Matrix and from an intellectual perspective I don’t find it too impressive, while it does present a variety of ideas it does not really explore them and the way most of them are presented seem rather shallow, if you have the slightest insight in the concept.
I never bothered to see all the episodes of Chrono Crusade, perhaps you could tell me what’s of interest in it.
As with Ghost in the Shell, I think it lacked focus on an idea and was more a “story that stumbled across some ideas”. The movie was better in that aspect and I must say I prefer the Director’s philosophical view over those of Masamune Shirow. It came very close to some awesome, and as far as I know unexplored concepts.
I still think that Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze are the best animes from a pure conceptual point of view, as they explore the concept to oblivion and beyond.
I never bothered to see all the episodes of Chrono Crusade, perhaps you could tell me what’s of interest in it.
As with Ghost in the Shell, I think it lacked focus on an idea and was more a “story that stumbled across some ideas”. The movie was better in that aspect and I must say I prefer the Director’s philosophical view over those of Masamune Shirow. It came very close to some awesome, and as far as I know unexplored concepts.
I still think that Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze are the best animes from a pure conceptual point of view, as they explore the concept to oblivion and beyond.
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Jeni Nielsen
- Posts: 405
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:35 am
I actually really really liked the George Clooney version of Solaris.Qwuff wrote:Read Solaris by Stanislaw Lem. And the movies by the same name are not bad either, though the Russian version is a lot, and I mean a LOT, better.
But, just to warn you, the movie is 3 hours long, but well worth it IMO.
As for intellectual fiction, I'm reading Dune again and I find it fascinating. Reading it for the third time brings out things I hadn't seen before. The story itself is quite amazing as it gives perspective on a "historical event" of the future while remaining true to the characters. The first really good hard-sci-fi piece to deal with character in my opinion.
The book deals with how empires are made and fall, the implications of human life on ecology, etc etc. As you can see I'm a fan though, so maybe it's not as great as I make it out to be...
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Jeni Nielsen
- Posts: 405
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:35 am
Re: Looking for…
I'm now reading Walden Two. While not good fiction by any means, so far it's more intellectual and philosophical than anything else I've ever read. Sometimes it reads like the philosophy section of our forumAnimae wrote:I am looking for intellectual fiction and I am wondering if anyone has some good suggestions. I don’t really care about the medium so anime, movies, books, music whatever.
Final Fantasy X, perhaps? It's something you get to read, watch and play all at the same time; so you couldn't ask for a medium with more variety if you aren't picky. Or Xenosaga Episode 1 (still in games, a little shallow with it's subject matter yet heartfelt). Or Boogiepop Phantom (anime), Black Jack (manga, also anime), the Patlabor movies- particularly the second one (anime), Perfect Blue (anime), Crime and Punishment (book, rather dense and difficult to get through), Chrono Trigger (game, oldie)...
Innocence? You did not mention it...
Yeah, I agree that I didn't find the Matrix as deep as people say; perhaps if it was your first introduction to philosophical pop-culture it would seem like genius though; I can see that. And I also found Oshie's GitS to be deeper, philosophically.
Innocence? You did not mention it...
Yeah, I agree that I didn't find the Matrix as deep as people say; perhaps if it was your first introduction to philosophical pop-culture it would seem like genius though; I can see that. And I also found Oshie's GitS to be deeper, philosophically.
Um, I'll just list a few that pop into my head and come back with more when they occur to me ^^
Books:
If on a winter's night a traveler - Italo Calvino
The man who was Thursday - G.K. Chesterton
Ulysses - James Joyce
Movies:
Satoshi Kon's films (Millenium Actress is phenomenal, although I don't know that I'd classify it as intellectual)
Mind Game (directed by Masaaki Yuasa) - hard to find but worth any amount of effort to do so
Fritz Lang's original black&white silent film version of Metropolis
13 Conversations about One Thing
Anime:
Kino no Tabi / Kino's Journeys
Ergo Proxy (still watching this one - plot is treated as more of a general framework, it's more just a series of ruminations)
Books:
If on a winter's night a traveler - Italo Calvino
The man who was Thursday - G.K. Chesterton
Ulysses - James Joyce
Movies:
Satoshi Kon's films (Millenium Actress is phenomenal, although I don't know that I'd classify it as intellectual)
Mind Game (directed by Masaaki Yuasa) - hard to find but worth any amount of effort to do so
Fritz Lang's original black&white silent film version of Metropolis
13 Conversations about One Thing
Anime:
Kino no Tabi / Kino's Journeys
Ergo Proxy (still watching this one - plot is treated as more of a general framework, it's more just a series of ruminations)
Ahhh! Satoshi Kon's films are excellent! He is my favourite director as well as Oshii. I haven't seen a film of his that I didn't love. Perect Blue, Millenium Actress, and Tokyo Godfathers; all different, and all perfect in their own way. I would call Millenium Actress "intellectual", because it is intelligent in the way that it is told and the emotions that it goes through could not be deeper and more soulful. I don't think "intellectual" is just limited to the straight-forward way of asking traditional philosophical questions, like "What is human" in Ghost in the Shell. There are so many other brilliant and valid ways of presenting the important questions, and so many more equally important questions. Millenium Actress explores the question, "What makes us old? Why do we keep going? What do we leave behind?" in a way that doesn't make the question obvious and stirs up a whole lot of other feelings and thoughts too, and it gives us an amazing narrative- it is wrapped up in a heart-wrenching, soul-felt story.
...Since it is nearing Christmas time, I recommend Tokyo Godfathers- it is one of the oddest and loveliest Christmas films ever. It's about three homeless people who find a baby on Christmas Eve and make it their quest to reunite it with it's mother, and the trials and tribulations that arise both from this and their general circumstances. I found it joyful, depressing, moving, uplifting... You know, it presents an ugly and beautiful look at 3 human beings and their not always angelic lives. So yeah, it is the perfect unmissable Christmas movie. Again, the "intelligence" comes in the way that it is told. Maybe the subject matter too... like, "Why do people mess up? What is a family? Where is the real goodness in people's hearts, and can it come out even when people seem hopeless? What is courage?" Satoshi Kon always gives some great stuff to think about in his films, even if it isn't always so obviously standard intellectual matter. I don't think anybody could watch these films and be diappointed in that regard, or feel like they've wasted their time.
By the way, the screenwriter for Perfect Blue and Millenium Actress also wrote the Alien Nine anime... I picked it up purely after hearing that and watching one short trailer. It was surprisingly enjoyable despite it's cutesy animation style and more regular "schoolgirls fighting aliens" subject matter. The reason I think it was good is because it again made you think, like "How do you be self-reliant?" or "Why do you tell yourself you are always happy, when you have a lot of pain inside?" I think I found myself identifying with aspects of the three primary school children, despite how silly and whacky it could get (it's also got a strangely brutal style at times). So I guess Satoshi Kon's screenwriter is as amazing a screenwriter as Kon is a director- I give credit to the pair of them!
...Since it is nearing Christmas time, I recommend Tokyo Godfathers- it is one of the oddest and loveliest Christmas films ever. It's about three homeless people who find a baby on Christmas Eve and make it their quest to reunite it with it's mother, and the trials and tribulations that arise both from this and their general circumstances. I found it joyful, depressing, moving, uplifting... You know, it presents an ugly and beautiful look at 3 human beings and their not always angelic lives. So yeah, it is the perfect unmissable Christmas movie. Again, the "intelligence" comes in the way that it is told. Maybe the subject matter too... like, "Why do people mess up? What is a family? Where is the real goodness in people's hearts, and can it come out even when people seem hopeless? What is courage?" Satoshi Kon always gives some great stuff to think about in his films, even if it isn't always so obviously standard intellectual matter. I don't think anybody could watch these films and be diappointed in that regard, or feel like they've wasted their time.
By the way, the screenwriter for Perfect Blue and Millenium Actress also wrote the Alien Nine anime... I picked it up purely after hearing that and watching one short trailer. It was surprisingly enjoyable despite it's cutesy animation style and more regular "schoolgirls fighting aliens" subject matter. The reason I think it was good is because it again made you think, like "How do you be self-reliant?" or "Why do you tell yourself you are always happy, when you have a lot of pain inside?" I think I found myself identifying with aspects of the three primary school children, despite how silly and whacky it could get (it's also got a strangely brutal style at times). So I guess Satoshi Kon's screenwriter is as amazing a screenwriter as Kon is a director- I give credit to the pair of them!
Sylphisonic: Good point - Millenium Actress has a warmth to it that I don't associate with outright philosophising, but the two ends are of course not mutually exclusive.
I was just thinking yesterday that I need to go and rent Tokyo Godfathers again over Christmas! The first time I saw it it left me feeling good for days! I'm looking forward to seeing Paprika when it becomes available. And I might have to check out Alien Nine - I would never have thought to look at it!
I was just thinking yesterday that I need to go and rent Tokyo Godfathers again over Christmas! The first time I saw it it left me feeling good for days! I'm looking forward to seeing Paprika when it becomes available. And I might have to check out Alien Nine - I would never have thought to look at it!
books
the lord of the rings / hobbit
dragonworld
the origins of man
the boys from brazil
the bible and the koran
music
rick wakemans "journey to the center of the earth"
yes "tales from topographic oceans and relayer"
rimsky korsikov's "scheherazade"
mussorgski's "pictures at an exhabition"
movies
the matrix
davince code
bourne indentity
mel brooks young frankenstien
mel brooks history of the world
the lord of the rings / hobbit
dragonworld
the origins of man
the boys from brazil
the bible and the koran
music
rick wakemans "journey to the center of the earth"
yes "tales from topographic oceans and relayer"
rimsky korsikov's "scheherazade"
mussorgski's "pictures at an exhabition"
movies
the matrix
davince code
bourne indentity
mel brooks young frankenstien
mel brooks history of the world