in the shell

I realize that Togusa is completely flesh, and that sets him apart in Section 9. Knowing that, why in hell does he perform stunts that only a cyborg could achieve and then insist on keeping is body? On multiple occasions it's because of these rash, heroic actions that nearly kills him. How does being "the family man" affect that mentality? Lastly, slightly off subject, when the rest of the team investigates the Sunflower Soc. incedent using Togusa's memories, why does it have such an immediate physical impact on the team, even enough for Aramaki to stop watching?

Phalanx Observation wrote:I realize that Togusa is completely flesh, and that sets him apart in Section 9. Knowing that, why in hell does he perform stunts that only a cyborg could achieve and then insist on keeping is body? On multiple occasions it's because of these rash, heroic actions that nearly kills him. How does being "the family man" affect that mentality? Lastly, slightly off subject, when the rest of the team investigates the Sunflower Soc. incedent using Togusa's memories, why does it have such an immediate physical impact on the team, even enough for Aramaki to stop watching?

He still has that brain boost thingymajiggy since he couldn't e in section 9 without it. I think he's always been there to show the other side of the picture. Being a cyborg is still very much a choice. I think he's trying to prove that there's still a reason for humans to stay human.

I think he should cybernize (is that even a word) at least some fraction of his body. I think while indeed, he should retain his internal organs, and majority of his body, there should be at least something to enhance aim ( which we all know everyone chews him out about). As far as any other cybernization, he should be left the way he is, because Motoko chose him specifically because of it. Hell, the guy even becomes the new head pancho in S9 once Motoko's gone. I'm getting that impression not only because of SSS, ( Which I can't wait to come out), but also because of the so far 3 volumes of Human Error Processor, which clearly show exactly how much trust he's been given. The guy definatelly shows that it doesn't take a pile of metal, and high-tech body alternations in order to be oustanding.


m.m.

I think I agree with the majors statements to him in the first GITS movie. It's his differences that make him valuable to section 9.

He has more respect and STILL OWNS his own body where as most of the others (excluding saito) body's belong to S9. It is this non cyberisiton that makes him invulnerable to varios cyborg hacks the others are vernable to.

marto_motoko wrote:I think while indeed, he should retain his internal organs, and majority of his body, there should be at least something to enhance aim ( which we all know everyone chews him out about).
m.m.

Hmm...I thought he had great aim, at one point Motoko scolds him for shooting poorly when his aim is usually impecable. I've only seen the episode once, but I'm sure that's what it was.

Ok...my next question:
Motoko says that Togusa's differences are valuable to S9. When does this prove true? I'm not saying that there aren;t times when it is true, I am just not aware of them. '

I think that Motoko values his on the street cop instincts as opposed to the military way of thinking that the rest have more of.

I think that she feels his instincts will pick up stuff the others might not, like in the first season when he picked up that peoples consciousnesses were being spied on.. Im sorry I forgot the actual terminology.

As far as his stupid stunts, well, I'm sure the rest of the guys started off with full bodies. They probably got cyberized for similar stupid stunts. I work in security with a lot of x cops and military guys. From listening to them, and seeing them work I think you just do what needs to be done, and think about the consequences later.

One guy rushed into a burning building and put out the fire, despite being burned, and having smoke inhalation, another fought off a thief through broken glass... stuff like that, and they don't have the choice to get cyberized...

I think Togusa is just human.

You make a good point Tonks and only support it with great personal anecdotes.

A thought has occured to me, and it happened when you pointed out Motoko's value of Togusa's street sense. If I remember correctly, doesn't adding prosthetics to a non-prosthetic body in Shirow's GitS World harbor a certain danger of losing memories, ultimatley instincts obtained from years on the force? I could be wrong on that, but if I'm not, that would also be another reason why the Major doesn't push Togusa to go prosthetic (and when she does, she only does it half-heartedly, almost jokingly.) Perhaps that may link with Togusa's persona as the Family man. Maybe he fears what memories he may lose of his wife and kids.

On a different note, maybe he feels that their wouldn't be as much of a physical connection or resemblence between his kids and himself anymore. I know at one point in the show, the Tachi.'s analyze a picture of Togusa and his baby boy and speculate as to Togusa's feelings on their close resemblence.

Of course, this argument could only sustain if it were true in regards to the loss of memory. I'm very tired and my memory is muddled.

You make a good point Tonks and only support it with great personal anecdotes.

A thought has occured to me, and it happened when you pointed out Motoko's value of Togusa's street sense. If I remember correctly, doesn't adding prosthetics to a non-prosthetic body in Shirow's GitS World harbor a certain danger of losing memories, ultimatley instincts obtained from years on the force? I could be wrong on that, but if I'm not, that would also be another reason why the Major doesn't push Togusa to go prosthetic (and when she does, she only does it half-heartedly, almost jokingly.) Perhaps that may link with Togusa's persona as the Family man. Maybe he fears what memories he may lose of his wife and kids.

On a different note, maybe he feels that their wouldn't be as much of a physical connection or resemblence between his kids and himself anymore. I know at one point in the show, the Tachi.'s analyze a picture of Togusa and his baby boy and speculate as to Togusa's feelings on their close resemblence.

Of course, this argument could only sustain if it were true in regards to the loss of memory. I'm very tired and my memory is muddled right now. And with that I bid you goodnight.

It could also be that he plans on being the head man at section 9 one day.
Aramaki can't stay number 1 forever. Forgive me if I'm wrong but are there any high ranking government officials that have cybernetic bodies?

Epiphany wrote:It could also be that he plans on being the head man at section 9 one day.
Aramaki can't stay number 1 forever. Forgive me if I'm wrong but are there any high ranking government officials that have cybernetic bodies?

Government officials usually tend to be very traditional. Y'know, the whole old value, and traditional morality thing...

As for Togusa, in SSS, from what they said in the first info I saw on it, when the trailer was released (only info I know actually), he's the head of S9, right under Aramaki once the Major leaves. So it's easy to imply a desire, and capability for him to one day follow in Aramaki's steps.

mm

I believe...he should stay as a full organic human.
It shows that while most have gone towards cyberization, there are still a few who are completely human, not to say the cyborgs aren't human... I guess, since one of the themes of the whole series is being human, Togusa serves as a perfect example, by being completely natural. He is the most human, it seems. One of the most emotional, one of the weakest, and yet he still manages to survive. I think that's what being human is about, anyway, and he serves as the perfect example, whilst someone like Motoko or Batou, who rely a lot on their cybernetics and who aren't as emotional as Togusa, represent the other end of the spectrum, as ones who gave up a little of their humanity. It's showing a contrast between, and not to be cruel to the characters, being human and being inhuman.

I dunno, those are just my personal thoughts.

shadowferret wrote:I believe...he should stay as a full organic human.
It shows that while most have gone towards cyberization, there are still a few who are completely human, not to say the cyborgs aren't human... I guess, since one of the themes of the whole series is being human, Togusa serves as a perfect example, by being completely natural. He is the most human, it seems. One of the most emotional, one of the weakest, and yet he still manages to survive. I think that's what being human is about, anyway, and he serves as the perfect example, whilst someone like Motoko or Batou, who rely a lot on their cybernetics and who aren't as emotional as Togusa, represent the other end of the spectrum, as ones who gave up a little of their humanity. It's showing a contrast between, and not to be cruel to the characters, being human and being inhuman.

I dunno, those are just my personal thoughts.

Excellent points! However, I would have to argue about the emotional state of the characters. It seems to me that while Togusa is more sensitive, he's not as emotional like a character of Batou's level. Poor old Batou has lost his temper, nearly killed someone even when told not to, cryed, screamed his head off, and even went on a suicide equivalent mission just to meet his Motoko. Poor guy gets my vote for most emotional Koukaku Kidotai character...

mm

Oh, yeah, true... Well, the point is, they are different emotionally... Togusa seems most sensitive, I guess.

shadowferret wrote:Oh, yeah, true... Well, the point is, they are different emotionally... Togusa seems most sensitive, I guess.

Not only that, but also Mr Togusa's a grouch! He says that we're creepy, or if he doesn't directly say it, he always implies it! And through the various analysis that I've held on the structure of his face when he partakes in observing us, there's a level of fear! THE NERVE! I simply can't understand the homosapien brain! So inolerable and phobic!

Actually, the tachikoma has a good point. Togusa, as a full scale human, is displaying one thing that people who undergo cybernization do not have - a few of evolution. Unlike Togusa, everyone else doesn't have a fear of the unknown, while he holds a more set-back attitude, and doesn't seem to open-minded to jumping into a realm of evolution that he isn't sure what it'll lead to.

mm