in the shell

I used to prefer to watch subbed anime--still do, in a lot of cases--but over the past decade or so, the quality of English dubs has increased dramatically (cases in point: SAC, Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist) so now I'd just as soon watch in English and not get distracted by the subtitles...

marto_motoko wrote:

Jeni Nielsen wrote:

GhostLine wrote: i SO agree!

Yay Crispin Freeman! (OT. I can't belive he played RUDE in Advent Children... pasty little white-fanboy (don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the man, but still XD))

Oh my flapping goodness! Togusa, the little mullet-wearing white bread was RUDE? ...my world has been shattered.....(How the heck did he make his voice so deep?)



marto_motoko

Since he played Alucard in Hellsing silly

I've watched both the english dubs on Adult Swim and the subtitled Japanese versions. The Japanese requires a lot of fast reading, but it still beats the hell out of watching episodes with altered dialogue and (to my ears at least) awkward delivery. It may be better than any ohter english dub I've seen, but you just can't replicate the emotional impact and subtlety of the japanese the lines were really written for.

Plus, the Tachikomas' voices in the Japanese version don't make me want to hit mute nearly as much as the english voices. They actually manage to be cute rather than annoying from time to time.

I always watch it with the English dubs for GITS. With other anime it depends on the quality of the voice acting, but, as has been said before, the voice acting in SAC is some of the best out there.

I get distracted by trying to read the subs and pay attention to the visuals at the same time, particularly in a dialogue-heavy anime like SAC.

douyang wrote:...The Japanese requires a lot of fast reading, but it still beats the hell out of watching episodes with altered dialogue... you just can't replicate the emotional impact and subtlety of the japanese the lines were really written for.

Unless you can understand Japanese (which I'll assume you can't), the Japanese-English translation issue applies to subtitles just as much as it does to dubbing. In fact, in that sense, I think the dubbing is probably superior as it contains tone, pace and other delivery methods which aid the understanding of the dialogue.

douyang wrote:...the Tachikomas' voices in the Japanese version don't make me want to hit mute nearly as much as the english voices. They actually manage to be cute rather than annoying from time to time.

I agree with you there.

I got the GiTS SAC DVD Box Set for Xmas last year after having been watching the LMF fansubs.

I hadnt watched the DVD's until this week and I must say the LMF subs are of much better quality than the DVD subs, much more indepth and seem to convey the nuances of the japanese language much better. I got about 3 episodes in and switched back the LMF versions.

I cant help but feel the official subs are a "best fit" for want of a better term. This puts me off watching the dubbed version as the script will likely match the substandard subs.

That said it wont stop me buying the 2nd Gig Box Set. I just wish I could find the LMF fansubs as SRT files so I could use them along with my DVD's.

fyst wrote: Unless you can understand Japanese (which I'll assume you can't), the Japanese-English translation issue applies to subtitles just as much as it does to dubbing. In fact, in that sense, I think the dubbing is probably superior as it contains tone, pace and other delivery methods which aid the understanding of the dialogue.

I could not agree with you more. Especially when there are times when the subtitles match the dub track exactly and you're wondering "what the hell were they thinking?!"

Also since I apparently haven't had this little rant on these boards or at least in this topic...

I'm really tired of anime fans who know about one word of Japanese (baka or otaku or some other such nonsense) thinking they are acurately able to judge the quality of a translation. Or how well the subtitles fit the original Japanese, or what conveys the nuances of the Japanese language. Translation is NEVER an exact science. As someone who has done many translations that would never come up to the professional translators' standard, I think fans need to give a lot more credit to the people who make anime available to you in English. /rant

ok that wasn't really directed at anyone here exactly, but I think you guys can all understand where I'm coming from.

jeni wrote:what conveys the nuances of the Japanese language

That felt very much like it was directed at me, given it was a direct quote of what I said.

LMF is also preferred for me due to overlaying of english text on non dialogue items in the anime, such as signs, computer/tv screens etc etc.

I have a huge respect for the guys behind LMF for that reason, they add to the depth of the anime.

I've never(correct me if they do exist) seen official subs with translation of background text.

ps That said, I guess it is all just down to personal taste, I just feel most dubs cheapen the feel of anime, I've tried to watch SAC with English dubs but it just doesn't feel right.

Whether that has more to do with me having seen the series 4/5 times over subbed before trying the English dubs I don't know.

Marf wrote:

jeni wrote:what conveys the nuances of the Japanese language

That felt very much like it was directed at me, given it was a direct quote of what I said.

LMF is also preferred for me due to overlaying of english text on non dialogue items in the anime, such as signs, computer/tv screens etc etc.

I have a huge respect for the guys behind LMF for that reason, they add to the depth of the anime.

I've never(correct me if they do exist) seen official subs with translation of background text.

Yeah sorry, but I've heard that said by a bunch of other people in various forums online so when you said it it kind of set me off.

But everyone has their own opinions, and I actually think that at times fansubs can be better (especially when a lot of translations are a rush job). I don't really see why all the background text has to be translated. I find it really distracting, UNLESS it has some major impact on the story which it usually doesn't.

Again this all comes down to personal taste, so sorry for ranting in your general direction.

No worries, I guess my nuance comment comes from a couple of instances in the LMF fansubs where they explain what I perceive as japanese specific anecdotes or sayings with a line of text along the top as well as translating the spoken words in a literal form, where I think with most official subs/dubs they may westernise it, simplify it, or just leave it unexplained.

I can understand how it'd be annoying, I do find my self pausing to read the extra text and that can be a bit irritating.

I must confess though, I only speak a couple of words of Japanese so my comments are entirely subjective, I would love to learn, I find it a fascinating language.

Jeni Nielsen wrote:

marto_motoko wrote:

Jeni Nielsen wrote: Yay Crispin Freeman! (OT. I can't belive he played RUDE in Advent Children... pasty little white-fanboy (don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the man, but still XD))

Oh my flapping goodness! Togusa, the little mullet-wearing white bread was RUDE? ...my world has been shattered.....(How the heck did he make his voice so deep?)



marto_motoko

Since he played Alucard in Hellsing silly

Crispin played in so many animes it's somewhat ridiculous (Which Hunter Robin, Amon; Wolf's Rain, Tsume; And even in video games, just like his fellow actor Steve Blum. Ace combat 5: the Unsung War to name a game where they are both voiced in.)

Although I mostly watch the Dubbed versions, I can't help but to point out that each actor interprets their characters in a different way. I don't think it's right to say that one actor's right while the other's wrong, just as I cannot say your view on him is wrong and mine is right.

In short, neither is better than the other, just different.
-Phalanx

i prefer the original Japanese version with english subtitles or german titles! cant really say y! but Major sounds sexy in Japanese!

i watch which ever movie or series it is once... so i get the jist of it in english dub then ill watch it with subtitles

I watch Anime in English dub if possible. If I could understand Japanese as well as I do English I'd listen to them in Japanese, but I just find the subs are distracting. I am dyslexic so I read really slowly and I've had to pause some Anime with subs to read the lines. It really breaks the atmosphere and gets frustrating. Also you miss what's going on in the main part of the screen if you are constantly looking down at subs all the time. This is only made worse by the fact that some parts of GiTS have very long and complex dialogue, which not only is a nightmare for me to read at the speed it's spoken, but also I've noticed it gets marginalised in places. I watched the sub'd version of the talk between Ghoda and Batou on the rooftop in the 2nd GiG (which I really enjoyed in English) and totally lost it halfway through because I couldn't really keep up and appreciate the visual references as well.

Besides all that the English dub is extremely good on SAC and GiTS. The voice actors are excellent. Also the individual Tachikoma are all voiced slightly differently in English which does a lot for the watchers sense of their individuality. All in all I certainly don't think watching GiTS or SAC in English takes *that* much away from it.

I prefer the dubbed versions. A typical GitS plot is always heavy on dialogue, visual details, and a lot of techno chit-chat on the side. It's too much of a hassle to keep up with everything if you're even slightly distracted. Hell, even in the English versions, I sometimes have to repeat some parts/episodes just to make sure I caught everything important!

It's as close as you'll ever get to the real thing (I thought Mimi Woods and McGlynn were both excellent as the Major). If you can't understand japanese, then all that emotion and execution by the Japanese VA's won't really help you much. In the end, you're still a slave to the translations slapped to the bottom of your screens. Which is why I'd rather watch a dub. You get the same content anyway.