in the shell

Its been bugging me for a while now, but was Aoi really there, in the library talking with the Major and Aramaki? Or were their eyes hacked? In the scene when they are leaving the library, Aoi was no longer in the ladder. And just before that, the Major stared at Aoi for a few seconds before following Aramaki.

The Major.... Hacked.....

I guess it is possible, Aoi did link with her while all of her defenses were down when he saved her fro the assassin, so he might have her ghost key.

All of us are reaching for our DVDs now to go watch that ep again though!

I assume you are talking about the end of the first SAC series?

The way I see it is that that location is not a physical one. That library is only a virtual one, and probably is only a `graphical representation` of Aoi`s knowledge. Therefore, their avatar can do anything they want, including disappearing.

At least that`s how I understand it

Freitag wrote:The Major.... Hacked.....

I guess it is possible, Aoi did link with her while all of her defenses were down when he saved her fro the assassin, so he might have her ghost key.

And also, he did forced her out of the chatroom when they were chatting in the episode CHAT!CHAT!CHAT!....

Saito wrote:I assume you are talking about the end of the first SAC series?

Yup, that's the one.

THYREN wrote:The way I see it is that that location is not a physical one.

I think its a real location, didn't Togusa went there in 2nd GIG when he was searching for a copy of the Individual Eleven?

Adding to my suspicion is the "panning of the camera". Not once were they in the same view, its always either Aoi's side without the major or the other way around.

hazle wrote:

Freitag wrote:The Major.... Hacked.....

I guess it is possible, Aoi did link with her while all of her defenses were down when he saved her fro the assassin, so he might have her ghost key.

And also, he did forced her out of the chatroom when they were chatting in the episode CHAT!CHAT!CHAT!....

THYREN wrote:The way I see it is that that location is not a physical one.

I think its a real location, didn't Togusa went there in 2nd GIG when he was searching for a copy of the Individual Eleven?

Adding to my suspicion is the "panning of the camera". Not once were they in the same view, its always either Aoi's side without the major or the other way around.

hmmm ... I just watched the end of CHAT!CHAT!CHAT! when Aoi forces Chroma (who`s only an avatar) out and she 'lands' into the library that materializes itself, and even Aoi`s avatar mentions something about being connected, so I am now sure that this library is only a representation of Aoi`s external memory system. That`s how he can recite so many famous quotes.

i'm pretty sure its real, that was the great thing about the ending..

here you have a super hacker, working in a place of non-digital media information and knowledge..

I agree that the library is real.

There is even an exchange about the storage of obsolete information between Aramaki and Aoi. Aramaki asks how long he will do it and Aoi replies "As long as they will let me."

It was unclear if he was working as a librarian in someone else's library or if he was referring to being allowed to own print media. I suspect that with his hacking ability he is quite wealthy.

THYREN wrote:
hmmm ... I just watched the end of CHAT!CHAT!CHAT! when Aoi forces Chroma (who`s only an avatar) out and she 'lands' into the library that materializes itself, and even Aoi`s avatar mentions something about being connected, so I am now sure that this library is only a representation of Aoi`s external memory system. That`s how he can recite so many famous quotes.

There is a difference in the real library compared to the one Aoi generated in CHAT!CHAT!CHAT! episode. For one thing, there's no robot librarians roaming around. Also, the stocks of books on the floor are missing too.

The library seems real enough, not sure about Aoi being there though...

All of it points to a virtual chat room. From the camera angles, to the dialogue.

At first I couldn’t even understand why you were all debating whether the library was real; it’d seemed to me that it was just a representation of Aoi’s knowledge, a sort of text file repository in the net. Looked at the episodes, though, and now I see what you mean – it’s so ambiguous!

The ‘camera angle’ thing is very confusing – aside from the end shot where Aoi is missing, just after the chief gets there, when Aoi says he’s speechless there’s an angle from which both Motoko and Aramaki should be visible and aren’t. There is a possibility they could be concealed by the curvature of the inner shelves, but it’s not likely; if you pay attention when the shelving machine goes past Motoko and Aoi the timing means that Motoko should be standing quite a bit closer to the stairs Aramaki descends by, and he in turn is closer to them than the Major. Can we, then, really say that Aoi could have hacked their eyes? Are any of them really there? Of course, all of this points towards the library being virtual.

So does the soundtrack, for that matter. Also, the lighting is exceedingly odd – from the beginning when the sky is green, to the light reflections on the spines of vertical books when the only light source seems to be natural light from the dome above, (for that matter, is the dome shown from the outside? The front of the building we were shown certainly didn’t seem to suggest a circular interior) although I’m probably just being pedantic, or missing something, here. The circular labyrinthine set-out of the library’s ground floor also seems a little contrived – it’s not symmetrical and seems to have little system, but labyrinths and libraries are certainly linked often enough, and its circularity and clean lines are also suggestive of the laughing man logo.

Of course, this last could very possibly just suggest that Aoi designed and had built the library. As Freitag has pointed out, it’s quite possible that Aoi is wealthy – and of all the things to do with wealth this seems perhaps the most characteristic ( I can’t really see him enjoying himself on a luxury cruise, can you?). If the library were only a virtual representation, why go to the trouble of creating an old-school, wood-panelled library, complete with entrance hall candles, and then have ugly shelving robots? Surely it’s safe to assume that they’re necessary because it’s physical? And perhaps they’re so ugly because their very function in moving ‘obsolete’ materials has made them themselves obsolete and halted any kind of design evolution.

The biggest indication that the library and its contents are physical, however, has got to be Aramaki’s expression of surprise that Aoi persists in collecting ‘obsolete printed material’. ‘Printed’ is key. The ‘allowed to’ retort could perhaps be a reference to Aoi’s former question about the police’s response to his actions – maybe I’m grasping at straws but I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone else would employ Aoi, alone, in that library.

Well, what do you think? I sure as hell can’t decide whether it’s real or not. One final question for you all though; what do you think of Aramaki’s comment that Aoi is storing ‘obsolete printed material’ ‘only published by force of habit’? Surely, in the context of what Section 9 has just gone through, assuming that it’s even Possible for copies to be created by force of habit only is ridiculous, if not just plain stupid. You’d think he might have learned their importance.

Oh, and since it's my first post, hi everyone! Sorry this's been so long...

I think it is completely virtual. As Motoko's watch is her Constant to her ghost. So is the image AND function of a library to Aoi. (whatever he may be now).

But if it is completely virtual then the fact that her arm has been replaced and that she has not switched cyber bodies would not be observable because she would be using an avatar.

The line showing where the busted arm was replaced is visible as a hairline joint. Motoko even comments on Aoi's observance of it.

True. But you might be underestimating the trauma that Motoko [i]might[/i] go through, (having lost an arm, even if it is prosthetic), inwhich something like that would transfer over (unconsciously) to her avatar.

Lot of what if on my part, but I see your point.

I seriously think the library was real enough. As I've said earlier the virtual library that Aoi created in CHAT!CHAT!CHAT! was different from the one in this episode.

And more importantly, Togusa actually went to that particular library in 2nd gig, when he was searching for a printed copy of the Individual Eleven.



This screenshot is from the episode "Selecon" in 2nd Gig.